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Old 02/09/2017, 09:57 PM   #1
maddog9776
 

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To Restore or Not to Restore

I have a customer that contacted me looking for advice and/or an estimate on restoring a 68 CS. Her husband bought the car before he passed and wanted to restore it to a numbers matching100pt car. Everything he bought for the car is NOS, no repop stuff. They even have the correct date coded 390 to go in it. All the parts are there and she's asking me if it's worth re-assembling or just sell as is. it's a 390/4spd car, 1 of 111 (can't vouch for that at this point). As much as I would like the job, my gut says she should sell as is. I know the car is worth more assembled, but is she likely to see the money she puts in. If the car is worth $X unassembled, and worth $Y assembled, is the difference between X and Y enough to make it worth it? Granted, I understand that depends on what I would charge, but I'm trying to be straight with her and I just don't know that much about CS's. Paint is in good shape so she's not looking to re-paint so that'll cut down on the cost considerably but something you should know to give a valid assessment.

I appreciate your thoughts....thanks
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Old 02/09/2017, 10:21 PM   #2
robert campbell
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Hard to say without a lot more information. How far is the car down? Is the engine a runner and ready to go? What is the interior like? When you say NOS parts, what are they so to speak? Are they just chrome and trim or??

Any car you can run and drive is worth more than a parts car. But at the same time if it is not assembled and correctly with proper paint and cleanliness then the buyer has to redo it.

Hard to tell from your description. An S code 390, 4 speed GT/CS attracts a lot of money. With all the documentation and a known rust free body. One down side is that you say a proper date coded engine, but not VIN stamped. That hurts some, and are all the all the parts there!

Rob
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Old 02/09/2017, 10:53 PM   #3
DeadStang
 
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I think the biggest factor is how far the car has been torn down. Quite a few guys would be likely to buy an S-code that just needs some seats and carpet stuffed back in, a few parts to collect, and the drive train rebuild and re-installed, etc. But you have a much, much smaller group of buyers if the car is a gutted shell sitting, surrounded by boxes. And the largest audience will buy the assembled car, dead or alive, as long as it looks like a car and moves like a car (dead or alive, no brakes, whatever--doesn't matter). The question is, what category does it fall into now and how much are you going to charge to take it to the next level up from a pile of boxes and a shell (if that's what it is)?

Since you are calling her a "customer," I assume you're in the car business in some respect...and if your gut tells you to sell it as it sits, I think you're probably correct. The long answer to your question: "I know the car is worth more assembled, but is she likely to see the money she puts in?" is very, very likely "NO."

But since many of us are car and project junkies, tell us more and post a few pictures to fire the old imagination in these horrible, winter doldrum days that some of us are trying to live thru until spring! ;)
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Old 02/10/2017, 09:48 AM   #4
franklinair
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Photos of the current status/condition of the car would be a BIG help in formulating opinions, pro & con.
You mentioned the 390 is date correct. Is it numbers matching? Its not a factor in MCA concourse judging, but can have an effect on market value.
Do you or the owner have a Marti Report to specify the manufactured status/equipment?
Assuming you operate a repair shop, would the labor cost be based on the shop rate ($60-$80/Hr) or mech's rate ($20+/-Hr)?
When you estimate manhours to complete the job, then double it. You'll be closer to reality.
A completed concourse level, big block CS would have a market value of $60K+/-.
A basket case condition big block CS (in pieces) with no serious issues would have a value of $17K IMHO.
The owner would then have to decide if she thinks it worth it (initial cost + restoration), plus considering sentimental value.

Neil
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Old 02/10/2017, 10:31 AM   #5
maddog9776
 

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I'll try to answer all the questions. The car is about 60% disassembled. It's been a little over a year since I've seen it so I would have to go take another look. I do know that the 289 that's currently in the car, and the 390 her husband purchased have been sitting about 8 years, so they will need to be gone through. The car originally has a 390 from the factory, the one he has now is not the one that came out of it.

NOS parts refers to ANYTHING the guy bought for the car, right down to the correct Lucas fog lights. They have a store room with shelves LOADED with parts. In some cases he had 2-3 of each part in case he didn't like one or whatever. There are two, NOS, Shelby air cleaners that I saw sitting there. He had a drawer unit hanging on the wall full of factory correct screws and bolts. I believe the hose clamps were all date coded as well. I told her she'd probably make more money getting an auction house to come in an sell all the loose parts.

The last two Mustangs I built for customers were both coupes. I'm a lot more familiar with what those go for, as well as fastbacks. The CS is a little different and I have zero familiarity with them on the sales side. How correct it is I don't know, but I did read where the 390 and 428 CJ's were the most prized. Just need to bounce this off some folks with a lot more knowledge.

Thanks
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Old 02/10/2017, 01:19 PM   #6
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If you want to sell it as is you will probably get more by selling the car and the NOS stuff separately. There are people looking for NOS parts that will pay top dollar for the one or two parts they need to complete their restoration project. A person wanting to buy everything for the sake of building the car will be looking for the lowest price possible to make up for the amount of money they will invest in the assembly process.

Whether to complete the project and sell it as a finished car will depend on how much you will charge to reassemble the car. If I was the owner I would be looking for a high (worse case) price from you on a signed contract to ensure I wouldn't end up upside down on the car when it's finished.

BigJim
'68 GT/CS, Presidential Blue, Numbers Matching, J-Code, C-4
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Old 02/10/2017, 04:20 PM   #7
Mosesatm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog9776 View Post
I'll try to answer all the questions. The car is about 60% disassembled. It's been a little over a year since I've seen it so I would have to go take another look. I do know that the 289 that's currently in the car, and the 390 her husband purchased have been sitting about 8 years, so they will need to be gone through. The car originally has a 390 from the factory, the one he has now is not the one that came out of it.

NOS parts refers to ANYTHING the guy bought for the car, right down to the correct Lucas fog lights. They have a store room with shelves LOADED with parts. In some cases he had 2-3 of each part in case he didn't like one or whatever. There are two, NOS, Shelby air cleaners that I saw sitting there. He had a drawer unit hanging on the wall full of factory correct screws and bolts. I believe the hose clamps were all date coded as well. I told her she'd probably make more money getting an auction house to come in an sell all the loose parts.

The last two Mustangs I built for customers were both coupes. I'm a lot more familiar with what those go for, as well as fastbacks. The CS is a little different and I have zero familiarity with them on the sales side. How correct it is I don't know, but I did read where the 390 and 428 CJ's were the most prized. Just need to bounce this off some folks with a lot more knowledge.

Thanks
If you end up restoring the car please feel free to contact me, or many of the others on this site, for advice. The GT/CS has many weird little nuances that aren't obvious to the uninitiated.
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Old 02/10/2017, 08:27 PM   #8
rvrtrash
 
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Without seeing it in person, I'll hazard a few opinions. With it that far disassembled, non matching engine, possibly tranny as well, and needing an engine and probably tranny rebuild, value will suffer. It takes a certain person to want to buy a project and rebuild it. To get it to "100 point" is going to take a lot of time and patience. Anyone not familiar will have to put in time to see what is "correct". As a shop owner, I assume you would have to charge the owner for your time to do this. It's almost impossible for a private party to restore a car, especially to that level, and break even, let alone make money. A shop can never do it, because you have to add in labor costs. I would suggest she sell, rather than restore. She'll be a lot further ahead, both in time and money. The NOS stuff can be appraised, and added to the car price (with a discount to take all), or turned over to a company that sells on ebay and takes a cut. Just my thoughts.

Steve

The wannabe formerly known as an owner.
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Old 02/10/2017, 10:29 PM   #9
Mosesatm
 
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Maddog,
Will you please either post the VIN in this thread or PM it to me or to Somethingspecial so we can add it to the registry if it's not already include.
And you are correct about Ford building 111 S-code 4-speed cars. There are 104 S-code automatics.

Thanks

Arlie
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Old 02/12/2017, 02:51 PM   #10
maddog9776
 

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Thanks for all the great advice....I'll keep you all posted on what she decides to do. I think my initial thoughts were probably correct in that she should sell as is, although there is the point about the value of all the NOS parts.

I'll also post the VIN as soon as I can get it.
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