The GT/CS perspective vs. the resto-mod hype

[marie68csmustangs]

...Very nice post here Paul. We owe alot to you & Jon for the GT/CS attributes you describe. Not to mention the incredible resource and fellowship you facilitate! Thank you!!

As an owner (past & present) of flared fendered, fire breathing, psyco-painted to the immaculate stock GT/CSs, I've been fortunate to enjoy all sides. My bottom line is that we'll all get along fine as individuals who love our cars however their manifest... I am reminded EVERY time I go out that the GT/CS in any form commands respect and dignity and I don't worry about its future as long as we're supportive to all owners.

GOD bless the "purists" - but when extreme, they sometimes are too nitpicky and annoying. The "restmodders" have alot of fun, but they can show too much disrespect when chopping up a great car... 'Same thing happens in classic aviation where the purists complain when a WWII fighter is modified for air racing. Yet thousands of people see the races w/some going to the jungles to retrieve & restore planes that would've otherwise rotted away. The warbird population is much larger now because of this exposure. I think we are too, but we shouldn't create a "wedge"...

I don't subscribe to any car mags & don't belong to any clubs. I love and enjoy the GT/CS for my own reasons. I'm not a conformnist and and don't want the pressure of making anyone mad by pretending to be one. My cars are Gods cars... I pay for the privilage owning and sharing them with ultimate hopes (like so many '32 Fords) I'll be a good enough steward that they'll be around long after I'm gone. Any other belief would only reduce my appeurture.

Great Job Tim - Don't think that I can top what you say.. Espically about the air racing, Yeah, they take great planes like the P51 and modify the engine and canopy and a paint job for the purpose of racing them.. It's almost like NASCAR Where Ford Fusions and Monte Carlos get modified.. I like some new cars but it's only a small amount of them.. Well, it's only my two cents..
:wink:
Marie

 

[Stacey Enderle]

Hi Paul,

Love your speech on our beloved GT/CS. There's one thing that never occured to me and I don't know if this was an option or if it was a standard part of the GT/CS package. Do all of the GT/CS's have a "map light" feature on it. I never seen any that I recall on other 68's. Mine has that map light with a wood grain peice running down the center (ceiling part) of the car. Just curious and wondering.

Stacey

 

[Stacey Enderle]

Funny Stories about my California Special

I enjoy the unrestored originals the best, especially when accompanied with an enthusiastic owner, or, a keeper a custodian of the car, who can tell about it's history, with stories!!

Those are the coolest! The Calif. Specials are so old now, most of them are on 3rd and 4th tier owners, at least- so the stories are harder come by.

To me that makes them much more desireable than any equivalent "new" or near new car.

.03

Jim B.

I have a funny one to tell ya. This was back in 1972 when my Mom and I were heading off to town. As usual, she's always one who love to shop. As we were heading off to town. I watched the speedometer go from 50,..then,..60,...70,..75, SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!! Locking up the breaks. Whoa, "What the h___ are you trying to do, send me through the wind shield!?? My Mom looked back and realized that the object lying on the trunk was something she didn't want to lose. The spoiler kept it from falling off. I asked why were you going so fast!? Mom replied, "I didn't realize what it was and I was trying to get it to fly off, the gloves went but the purse stayed."

Hope you enjoy the little story,...
Stacey

 

[mmarsalone]

Hi Paul,

Love your speech on our beloved GT/CS. There's one thing that never occured to me and I don't know if this was an option or if it was a standard part of the GT/CS package. Do all of the GT/CS's have a "map light" feature on it. I never seen any that I recall on other 68's. Mine has that map light with a wood grain peice running down the center (ceiling part) of the car. Just curious and wondering.

Stacey

Stacey,

The overhead console was part of the Interior Decor Group and was not available as a standalone option, as the floor console was. You should have a wood grain dash and wood rain on your door panels as well. The Interior Decor Group was available on any Mustang.

BTW - my wife spells her name with "E" in it also.

 

[still looking for one]

I have a funny one to tell ya. This was back in 1972 when my Mom and I were heading off to town. As usual, she's always one who love to shop. As we were heading off to town. I watched the speedometer go from 50,..then,..60,...70,..75, SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!!! Locking up the breaks. Whoa, "What the h___ are you trying to do, send me through the wind shield!?? My Mom looked back and realized that the object lying on the trunk was something she didn't want to lose. The spoiler kept it from falling off. I asked why were you going so fast!? Mom replied, "I didn't realize what it was and I was trying to get it to fly off, the gloves went but the purse stayed."

Hope you enjoy the little story,...
Stacey

That is truly a (California) "Special" story. No one could have made that up!

Jim B.

 

[Mosesatm]

If I remember correctly that ducktail spoiler creates some interesting snow patterns on the rear window, too.

 

[Stacey Enderle]

Stacey,

The overhead console was part of the Interior Decor Group and was not available as a standalone option, as the floor console was. You should have a wood grain dash and wood rain on your door panels as well. The Interior Decor Group was available on any Mustang.

BTW - my wife spells her name with "E" in it also.

I got curious about the woodgrain on the door panels, I thought at first, I didn't have those on there. After you mentioned it, I had to go and look, sure enough, You're right!
Has your wife ever had trouble with people spelling her name with an "ie" on the end instead of a "y"? I have, and those who did knew it bugged me kept on doing it. aarrrgh! :frust: LOL

 

[Stacey Enderle]

Another California Special story,...

That is truly a (California) "Special" story. No one could have made that up!

Jim B.

Another CS story, when I graduated from High School and went to college up north, next to the Canadian border. There were kids who always liked to ride on the trunk of my car. So when the got alittle smart with me, I'd find a speed bump, gun it, and fling em off the car trunk and watch them tumble. The funny part, they'd come back for more. Talk about glutton for punishment. :grin:

 

[Stacey Enderle]

snow patterns

If I remember correctly that ducktail spoiler creates some interesting snow patterns on the rear window, too.

When I was a kid and not old enough to drive, I used to watch those patterns and I would be messmerized by it. It was neat.

 

[PNewitt]

When it gets really cold, you can see the inner trunk bracing shape on the top of the trunklid, too. You'll see a big "X" outlined in frost.

Once, I broke a transmission rear seal on a geology field trip, and from driving across Nevada, I got this thin film/dirt grime all across the back end--from the lower air pressure there from the spoiler. You'll notice a lot of dirt collects back there from long drives.

What's a truly a unique GT/CS experience is being able to see the spoiler in the rear view mirror--all the time!

Paul.

 

[John McGilvary]

My GT/CS was the Mustang I wanted back in "68" and it will remain the same in "2008". In other words, I like the resto-modes, but my CS is going to stay just the way it was when I bought it. John

 

[PNewitt]

By the way...

I got photos of John's CS, and they are awesome! One photo shows a yellow chalk mark on the driver's side inner fender that has a cryptic "CoBra" written there (for the engine guys on the line to drop in a 428 CJ).

Great info--and photos that will go into the book!

Thanks John! Awesome stuff!

Paul Newitt

 

[John McGilvary]

By the way...

I got photos of John's CS, and they are awesome! One photo shows a yellow chalk mark on the driver's side inner fender that has a cryptic "CoBra" written there (for the engine guys on the line to drop in a 428 CJ).

Great info--and photos that will go into the book!

Thanks John! Awesome stuff!

Paul Newitt

Your welcome Paul. There have been alot of mustang guys come around to look at my CS since it was talked about on the 428 cobrajet website. Most of them cannot believe that the first CJ produced at the San Jose plant was a CS. By the way if I told you that the "Cobra" (RDX) was written on the drivers side, I ment the passenger side. Thanks John

 

[PNewitt]

I dusted this thread off to bring you the following:

If you got the May 2007 issue of Mustang Monthly, you'll see an interesting quote about "Clones" and "Restomods" on page 28.

The quote is by Drew Alcazar, president of Russo & Steele auction house. As follows, regarding restomods:

"That segment is very depressed. Clones and restomods are like Bic Lighters--you use them and throw them away. But if you have an original musclecar wth the right matching numbers, documentation, a thorough history, and no stories, the market is still strong."

Interesting. It would appear that the clone & modified cars have been a little too common in the auction circuit, and that buyers are more interested in a Mustang pedigree with papers, than fancy paint, bodywork and engines.

I still say "do what makes you happy with your GT/CS", but if you want to sell it in an auction, you might consider where the true value is. As time moves along, the originality is what people will want to see, buy and appreciate.

Curious. Your thoughts? (and I bet "Mustangs Plus" isn't too happy with seeing that quote in MM).

Paul N.

 

[joedls]

I think that restomods have never been easy to get your money out of. But I also believe that there is a market for very nicely done restomods with quality workmanship. Look at the track record of Ted and Tom Diller (aka the Tomato Farmers) at Barrett Jackson. This year they auctioned two cars together, a Boss 302 and a Boss 429. They brought a whopping $530K plus fees. So someone paid $583K for those cars.

Drew Alcazar may have some ulterior motive in depressing the restomod market, since Barrett Jackson seems to get many more of these types of cars.

 

[John McGilvary]

Hey Paul,
I read the same Mustang Monthly article.

(IMO) In my almost 40 years of owning my CS, every few years they come up with something cool to modify our cars with. But the modification coolness
seems to always fade away when some new high $$ mod is put on the market.
For me originality is what makes my California Special cool. I agree with the (MM) article.

John

 

[J_Speegle]

By the way...

I got photos of John's CS, and they are awesome! One photo shows a yellow chalk mark on the driver's side inner fender that has a cryptic "CoBra" written there (for the engine guys on the line to drop in a 428 CJ).

Great info--and photos that will go into the book!

Paul just make sure you note that not all (in fact few) received that, or we will have every one copying it on there car

Always an issue with details..... just look at all the people that copy stuff from magazines where they typically do not list when or where the car was built.

Just a comment as I am deducting points at shows on more and more cars as owners feel the need to put all this stuff on their cars - right or wrong

 

[Midnight Special]

Hey Paul,
I read the same Mustang Monthly article.

(IMO) In my almost 40 years of owning my CS, every few years they come up with something cool to modify our cars with. But the modification coolness
seems to always fade away when some new high $$ mod is put on the market.
For me originality is what makes my California Special cool. I agree with the (MM) article.

John

John, if I were a 40yr owner of a 428CJ CS that has been as well kept as yours - you can bet I wouldn't restomod it! And being privileged to see Mike's 390GT start up for the first time last night affirmed admiration and respect for those of you who go to extremes for authenticity. At the same time; I don't see where "clones and restomods" should be compared to "Bic lighters".

I would not have purchased my black GT/CS had it not been modified with a 302/ 4-spd instead of it's (Marti spec) 289 2v C4. The difference is w/ full disclosure from the seller and knowing what you are getting B4UBuy...

Our threads bounce all over the place lately re: total concours vs beefing up 390s and making 11-sec CSs to keep up w/ new ones etc... So go the different opininions to match desires of we differing owners. I remain middle of the road as usual - but YES, I agree the better value lies in originality. If you're selling one that is not - disclose fully, so a potential buyer can decide what they need to do to make it original if desired...

 

[John McGilvary]

Correction!

Tim,

In know way do I agree with any Mustang being a throw away "Bic Lighter",
restomode or original. That part of the MM article I do not agree with.

I only own one Mustang and want it as original as possible,
but thats just me.:smile:

John

 

[PNewitt]

Drew Alcazar may have some ulterior motive in depressing the restomod market, since Barrett Jackson seems to get many more of these types of cars.

That very thought more than just crossed my mind when I read it. I remember when Drew restored high-dollar Shelbys (like a GT-500KR conv.), and one was on display at a SAAC convention in Portland many years ago. A lot of his work was shown in color in Mustang Monthly, and people would base their restorations on his work. I personally felt that he over-restored his cars, to set a higher standard. The comment was a little shocking to see in print, (IMO) but, you have to consider the source...

My impression is that the whole auction business "taints" the enthusiasm for concours restorations by enthusiasts, in how the aspect of money is more important than the history and heritage and the "fun" of ownership. Some restore for personal satisfaction, others just to sell a car (but that is another story for another time).

There is a sad irony to original cars that come up on the block. Say, the original owner pampered a Mustang lovingly for 40 years, and it comes up on stage--and the underlying comment/question arises: "what'll you give for 40 years of sincere ownership" "what $$ value is in that"? ...and then; in a flash, it's gone, like a head of beef.

It's truly a question of definations of value. Tim champions the average guy that likes to drive and enjoy their Mustang; and perhaps "concours competition" is a challenge to that perception and type of appreciation. "Value" of ownership can range from the act of driving; the trophys on the mantle; timeslips from the drag strip, or what it will get at auction. The point is that there is satisfaction in ownership, and that no one choice should stand over any other.

If people like driving their Bic Lighter, and thrashing it out on an autocross track, or the drags; that is their choice. Not every Mustang should be measured by it's concours/ auction potential.

Paul N.