1968 Welded Shock Towers

[Ruppstang]

Marty,
His are not welded. I have a 1967 A code 4 speed, GT Fastback in my garage right now. Not welded, but I am not surprised. And not a K code.

Shelby's are not San Jose specific I think? Wonder if it could be a "plant" thing? Some of the 1967 GT 350 Shelby's have been welded. I think I heard of one that was welded on one side and not the other?

Rob

I am very surprised to hear that Bill's are not welded. With great documentation that it is a GT we can not say that every J code GT will be welded. We will need to list the date codes and plants to see if Ford started welding them at some point during the year.
FYI all 67 Shelby's were built in San Jose CA. and the 68 Shelby's were built in Metuchen NJ.
I also believe the optional HD suspension is the same suspension as used on the GT but have not found that the shock towers were welded on them.
Marty

 

[robert campbell]

Marty,
Belay my last!!!! Giant brain fart!!! Bill just verified that his shock towers are welded as we suspected! He hopes to post some pics soon.

Rob

 

[TraveledGTCS]

Don't blame Rob for info on my shock towers. I had initially given him the incorrect information; I didn't have enough illumination in my garage to really look at the shock towers and when I was at his place we both had brain freeze not to check it out then. Subsequently I have taken a look outside in the sunshine and took some photos of both sides. One is a little out of focus but I was aiming the camera around the cross brace and hoping I had a shot.

Anyway here are some photos

Bill

 

[robert campbell]

Bill,
Photos are perfect! Thanks. Now if we could get Limelyt to take a picture of his car or just look at it!!

Rob

 

[sportyworty]

Hmm I posted that my J code GT December San Jose had one side welded. I think it is safe to assume not ALL were welded based on that fact whether they were intended to be or not. This evidence was requested by Marty on the CMF and I linked it here for Rob yet has been dismissed in this dialog.

Can't use 68 GT 350's in the equation either because they are Big suspension cars like a Big Block. They have 31 spline rears and springs front/rear. Yes they are welded.

The HD suspension could be ordered in 68 but only on a non GT which included it.

I think you will find a phase in date for the welded towers on 68 GT small block Mustangs that may vary some from plant to plant until we see it consistantly on all cars

 

[Ruppstang]

Hmm I posted that my J code GT December San Jose had one side welded. I think it is safe to assume not ALL were welded based on that fact whether they were intended to be or not. This evidence was requested by Marty on the CMF and I linked it here for Rob yet has been dismissed in this dialog.

Can't use 68 GT 350's in the equation either because they are Big suspension cars like a Big Block. They have 31 spline rears and springs front/rear. Yes they are welded.

The HD suspension could be ordered in 68 but only on a non GT which included it.

I think you will find a phase in date for the welded towers on 68 GT small block Mustangs that may vary some from plant to plant until we see it consistantly on all cars

Kerry I agree with you that there were often mistakes on the assembly and your car certainly proves that fact. At this point I am pretty certain that Ford intended for all of the J code GT cars to be welded. I have in no way discounted the information that you offered. Some times on these threads that go for days and multiple page some of the information is forgotten or not read completely by all. Thanks again for your help in our quest for the true facts.
Marty

 

[robert campbell]

Kerry,
I read your post and went into both the links you posted. My post two down from yours was a bit directed towards your 3.00 rear end. I am sorry that I did not direct the post specifically towards you. Arlie's car had the same rear end which must have been an additional check mark on the option list?? I do not know.

Kerry you have always been very supportive of this site and I did not intend to dismiss your car or evidence. I will say that since your car has one side welded that it in a way supports that GT optioned J code Mustangs in 1968 were reinforced by welding the shock towers.

I have a welding and manufacturing background and envision these cars coming down the line and at a spot on the line one person comes out and uses a "Mig" gun with wire feed to weld up these shock towers before the engine is installed. By hand! The bits of wire left on some cars support this.

I can only guess that in the case of your car that maybe it was late on a Friday and shift change??? Brain fart like me??

Did 1968 J code GT cars get completely forgot on the line with no shock tower welding? More than likely. Or maybe I (we) are all wet. Our research is very infant. It may never be complete. We can only view some examples 50 or so years later.

Again not trying to make this absolute. Just another area to look at when trying to discern if a 1968 J code Mustang was GT optioned. No more no less.

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Kerry,
I am interested in the comment in your post:

"Can't use 68 GT 350's in the equation either because they are Big suspension cars like a Big Block. They have 31 spline rears and springs front/rear. Yes they are welded."

I ask all the below innocently from lack of knowledge. Were 1968 Shelby's and specifically 1968 GT 350 Shelby's "preordered" (lack of saying it another way) from Ford as a specific package? A special ordered 1968 Mustang from Ford solely delivered to become a Shelby? I interpret "big suspension" as a competition handling package similar to the 1967 package? All (to the best of our knowledge) GT 350 cars came with 31 spline axles?

Please do not take any of the above as anything more than an attempt to increase our understanding of the Mustang hobby.

Rob

 

[6t8-390gt]

Check out this threat on the SAAC forum, specifically the designation on line 5 "FLOOR PAN -390 ENG TYPE-"

http://saacforum.com/index.php?topic=31089.0


IMO that was likely specified not only for the 1968 Shelby GT 350's, but also with the J-code GT option on regular Mustangs. As Kerry said HD suspension was part of the GT package in 1968.

Danny

 

[robert campbell]

Danny,
Those two window stickers answer a bunch of questions for 1968!!! To my knowledge of Shelby's, 1968 was the year that Ford kind took over. Prior to that the cars were delivered to LA and Shelby American (SA) finished the modifications. The company that finished them in 1968 escapes me at the moment?

The window stickers list an export brace that seems to indicate that Ford put that on vice the earlier practice of SA installing that piece. And the window stickers certainly reveal that in 1968 the car was a purpose order from Ford destined to be a Shelby from inception.

The Marti report confuses me a bit. 02 usually means 2 door fastback. 63B means bucket seat luxury model for the deluxe interior. Found it interesting that these two areas indicated Shelby?

Is it true that prior to 1968 that the cars were "not" destined as a Shelby from inception and just ordered as a high performance Mustang so to speak? Of course that makes the installation of the 428 in 1967 a huge factor. I assume that motor came in the car from Ford. So that would substantiate that they were destined from the get go?

Rob

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

Don't blame Rob for info on my shock towers. I had initially given him the incorrect information; I didn't have enough illumination in my garage to really look at the shock towers and when I was at his place we both had brain freeze not to check it out then. Subsequently I have taken a look outside in the sunshine and took some photos of both sides. One is a little out of focus but I was aiming the camera around the cross brace and hoping I had a shot.

Anyway here are some photos

Bill

Are both shock towers welded?

 

[sportyworty]

I apologize for coming off 'testy" fellas. My deductive reasoning was not working clearly on the one side being welded. Thanks for also pointing out the obvious that if one side was welded the other was intended to be as well.

Ok I think Danny has the answer with the line item 5 with regards to the towers and I tend to agree with his explanation to cover the GT cars.

Rob the 68 GT 350/500 was "destined" and built by Ford at the Metuchen plant and completed by AO Smith in the same fashion as they were built by Ford at the San Jose plant completed in prior years by Shelby American.

All 68 Shelbys had deluxe interior, extra cooling package and as we see on the invoice call out big block leaf springs AR ( 4 speed) and AM (auto) which lowered the rear 1 inch. The front coils were the stiffer Pink/Gold daub same as used on the 68.5. 68 Shelby's used the Nodular case 9 inch 31 spline axles and 15/16" front sway bar. These items were installed at the Metuchen Ford plant. AO Smith would have installed the one piece Export Brace, 15” wheels and Adjustable Blue HD Autolite shocks along with all the Fiberglass, some wiring and other Shelby specific details. When I compared my 68 Hertz 350 next to the 68.5 the suspension was identical. J code MUSTANG GT does not have a 15/16" sway bar, adjustable C7Z shocks, AR-AM leafs, Pink/Gold coils, 31 spline axles etc. These specific items are on the GT350.
We have HD small block suspension and HD big block suspension with different components for the MUSTANG. The 68.5 would be big HD with the addition of the 31 spline Nodular yet it is not called out. I believe the Shelby is considered competition suspension for 67/68 with the 15" wheels, export brace and special shocks.

With regards to axle ratios...I believe the standard 9 inch, 28 spline axle for the GT MUSTANG was the code 7 3.25 std (open) anything different like same ratio code G 3.25 limited slip would be called out as optional. Interesting that the 8 inch carrier used the same code E 3.00 as the 9 inch.
For the Shelby 350 the standard ratio was code 8 3.50 open with highest ratio for the Shelby 350 was a 3.89 with a 4 speed. For the KR it was a 3.00 open code 6 and the highest ratio was a 3.50. Of course the KING is the 68.5 with a standard 3.50 open all the way up to an optional 4.30 wink wink lol

 

[robert campbell]

Are both shock towers welded?

Yes, Both of Bill's are welded like yours was. His pictures show both sides, but with an engine in the compartment, it is harder to see.

Rob

 

[Mosesatm]

It looks like they missed a spot on the driver's side.

 

[robert campbell]

I apologize for coming off 'testy" fellas. My deductive reasoning was not working clearly on the one side being welded. Thanks for also pointing out the obvious that if one side was welded the other was intended to be as well.

Ok I think Danny has the answer with the line item 5 with regards to the towers and I tend to agree with his explanation to cover the GT cars.

Rob the 68 GT 350/500 was "destined" and built by Ford at the Metuchen plant and completed by AO Smith in the same fashion as they were built by Ford at the San Jose plant completed in prior years by Shelby American.

All 68 Shelbys had deluxe interior, extra cooling package and as we see on the invoice call out big block leaf springs AR ( 4 speed) and AM (auto) which lowered the rear 1 inch. The front coils were the stiffer Pink/Gold daub same as used on the 68.5. 68 Shelby's used the Nodular case 9 inch 31 spline axles and 15/16" front sway bar. These items were installed at the Metuchen Ford plant. AO Smith would have installed the one piece Export Brace, 15” wheels and Adjustable Blue HD Autolite shocks along with all the Fiberglass, some wiring and other Shelby specific details. When I compared my 68 Hertz 350 next to the 68.5 the suspension was identical. J code MUSTANG GT does not have a 15/16" sway bar, adjustable C7Z shocks, AR-AM leafs, Pink/Gold coils, 31 spline axles etc. These specific items are on the GT350.
We have HD small block suspension and HD big block suspension with different components for the MUSTANG. The 68.5 would be big HD with the addition of the 31 spline Nodular yet it is not called out. I believe the Shelby is considered competition suspension for 67/68 with the 15" wheels, export brace and special shocks.

With regards to axle ratios...I believe the standard 9 inch, 28 spline axle for the GT MUSTANG was the code 7 3.25 std (open) anything different like same ratio code G 3.25 limited slip would be called out as optional. Interesting that the 8 inch carrier used the same code E 3.00 as the 9 inch.
For the Shelby 350 the standard ratio was code 8 3.50 open with highest ratio for the Shelby 350 was a 3.89 with a 4 speed. For the KR it was a 3.00 open code 6 and the highest ratio was a 3.50. Of course the KING is the 68.5 with a standard 3.50 open all the way up to an optional 4.30 wink wink lol

Kerry,
Thanks for the info!!! The link that Danny provided to the SAAC site supports everything you said. Certainly in 1968 a Mustang was destined from day one to be a Shelby and got all sorts of unique HP stuff.

I saw the export brace on the window sticker that the link Danny provided. It led me to believe that maybe the car got the export brace on the line before it went to A O Smith??

All of this is helpful to zero in on the original question as Jeff suggested. If it was the norm for standard Mustangs in 1968 with the J code and the GT option to have welded shock towers.

Seems early research is pointing that way. Gives a prospective 1968 GT buyer, without the benefit of a Marti, an easy item to look for at purchase. We have a huge swap meet in Portland every year and buyers are faced to look at a car that may or may not be a true GT in all years. Kinda like the SS option for a Malibu that increases the value of base car quite a few bucks. The 65 and 66 are easily cloned and hard to challenge on the spot.

Rob

 

[J_Speegle]

Though its off the subject believe the add/delete sheets would provide more detail information as to how the Shelbys were built than the so called window sticker in the SAAC thread.

We will not know if there are similarities between the different plants and builds unless we could find the factory building info. Haven't heard of the two books/guides showing you and if they did we found be faced with figuring out if the plants followed them - just like the assembly manuals we have copies of. Internal paperwork from San Jose is pretty much non-existent, What was left at the end went in dumpsters - friends dug through

The export brace was added at San Jose in 65-67 Shelby production just part of the export package identified in the add/delete sheets but different years different cars.

As a thought is there a list yet of what J codes have been documented from San Jose - the findings and the VIN or at least real build date?

 

[robert campbell]

Though its off the subject believe the add/delete sheets would provide more detail information as to how the Shelbys were built than the so called window sticker in the SAAC thread.

Why do you call them "so called"? They looked pretty definitive and original except there was no VIN that I could find. My brothers 1967 "window sticker" from Marti has the VIN. Maybe they dropped this as 1968 this car was destined to be a Shelby with its own VIN number. As noted on its Marti?

We will not know if there are similarities between the different plants and builds unless we could find the factory building info. Haven't heard of the two books/guides showing you and if they did we found be faced with figuring out if the plants followed them - just like the assembly manuals we have copies of. Internal paperwork from San Jose is pretty much non-existent, What was left at the end went in dumpsters - friends dug through

So a J code GT Mustang built in Metuchen with welded shock towers not be a start?

The export brace was added at San Jose in 65-67 Shelby production just part of the export package identified in the add/delete sheets but different years different cars.

To my knowledge from 65 to 67 that is correct, The window sticker on the subject 1968 may mean they add it later at A O Smith?

As a thought is there a list yet of what J codes have been documented from San Jose - the findings and the VIN or at least real build date?

I plan to query Mustangs Northwest And Kitsap Mustang Clubs for owners of 1968 J code GT cars. It will be a start to expand the research.

Jeff,
I pasted questions and thoughts between your comments in your original e-mail above.

Rob

 

[J_Speegle]

Jeff,
Why do you call them "so called"? They looked pretty definitive and original except there was no VIN that I could find.

First - should have referenced the first page of the two posted. Lower version looks more like the typical commercial - retail version minus a few things. Upper is a odd/rare one that has been seen a few times in different years.

Since they were never destined to be stuck on the window in a retail situation (but instead more of an inter company communication IMHO) I don't look at them the same as retail window stickers which are different in content. Its is as if they just choose that way of communication since the machines and format were there and available rather than creating a new form and process.

My brothers 1967 "window sticker" from Marti has the VIN. Maybe they dropped this as 1968 this car was destined to be a Shelby with its own VIN number. As noted on its Marti?

Not sure what you got from Kevin. He does the reports and has some (for some years and plants) the #2 shipping invoices. Didn't know he had copies of the original window stickers for any of the cars. There have been a couple of places that have offered "reproduction" window stickers over the years though they build them from the information you provide

So a J code GT Mustang built in Metuchen with welded shock towers not be a start?

If I was a person researching the possibility of welded shock towers I would focus on the particular car of interest - in this case spring 68 San Jose cars. If I found supporting information I might then expand it out to the complete year for that plant to see if it was a running change. Other plants would not be a focus since it can add to the work load, add to the false positives and simply muddy the waters in the early stages of collecting data.

But that's just me and how I would suggest going about the process.

(in reference to To my knowledge from 65 to 67 that is correct, The window sticker on the subject 1968 may mean they add it later at A O Smith?

Looking at that specific sheet 3/4 down the first page I see a charge for what may be the export brace. Suggesting to me that they were included and installed by Ford. "Export Front end reinforcement $4.70. Or are we looking at two different things. Of course this has nothing to do with the J code welded shock towers :wink:


Now on with the search :icon_ecst

 

[robert campbell]

First - should have referenced the first page of the two posted. Lower version looks more like the typical commercial - retail version minus a few things. Upper is a odd/rare one that has been seen a few times in different years.

I did look at both pages. To me the two complimented each other and the second led me to the conclusion it was for a GT 350 not a GT 500.

Since they were never destined to be stuck on the window in a retail situation (but instead more of an inter company communication IMHO) I don't look at them the same as retail window stickers which are different in content. Its is as if they just choose that way of communication since the machines and format were there and available rather than creating a new form and process.

Cool, Thank you.

Not sure what you got from Kevin. He does the reports and has some (for some years and plants) the #2 shipping invoices. Didn't know he had copies of the original window stickers for any of the cars. There have been a couple of places that have offered "reproduction" window stickers over the years though they build them from the information you provide

If you go back a page in the thread you will see what Marti send my brother in his elite report. Yes, a reproduction of what would have been on the window according to Marti. It is part of the elite report from Marti.

Of note, the Marti for the Ebay Shelby GT-350 confuses me with the 02 saying Shelby and not 2 door Fastback Bucket seats. Further the 63B says Shelby vice bucket seat luxury model for the deluxe interior. Thoughts?


If I was a person researching the possibility of welded shock towers I would focus on the particular car of interest - in this case spring 68 San Jose cars. If I found supporting information I might then expand it out to the complete year for that plant to see if it was a running change. Other plants would not be a focus since it can add to the work load, add to the false positives and simply muddy the waters in the early stages of collecting data.

Most cars I will run into are San Jose cars. If a Metuchen pops up I will add it to the research. This is all infant at this time.

But that's just me and how I would suggest going about the process.


Looking at that specific sheet 3/4 down the first page I see a charge for what may be the export brace. Suggesting to me that they were included and installed by Ford. "Export Front end reinforcement $4.70. Or are we looking at two different things. Of course this has nothing to do with the J code welded shock towers :wink:

That is what I concluded also.


Now on with the search :icon_ecst

Jeff,
More thoughts between your thoughts!!

Rob

 

[robert campbell]

Gary "Limelyt" has replied to my query in this thread. Arlie's GT/CS, Bill's "traveledGTCS", Gary's GT/CS, and Marty's HCS all are J code 4V 302's, and have the GT option, and all have welded shock towers, and 9 inch rear ends. All of these cars are San Jose built cars. Danny "teamlo" has a standard 1968 4V 302 GT optioned coupe and it has the welded shock towers and a nine inch rear end. I have a firm memory of a 1968 302 4V J code Fastback that also has the same treatment as above. All cars are from San Jose. All but the one in my memory are Marti verified for the 9 inch rear end option.

Marty and I continue the research and are trying to find a standard 1968 302 4V J code Coupe or Fastback that is GT optioned and built at either Dearborn or Metuchen plants. To see if this is plant specific or not. Shelby GT 350's are welded and carry the nine inch rear end, but they are a totally different pedigree and not part of the above findings.

I certainly looks like if you are looking at a car to purchase that is a 1968 J Code 302 4V, Standard Coupe or Fastback, GT/CS or HCS, and the owner claims that it is a GT or carries the GT option that the 9 inch and the welded shock towers "should" be on the car. This is not all inclusive, but may be another arrow in the quiver when viewing a car without the benefit of a Marti report.

Research is infant yet and may never be complete as we are looking at a fraction of the cars built, but again in looks promising as a clue to whether the car came from the factory as a true GT optioned car.

Rob