2006+ Mustang GT/CS News

[joemamma]

[quote author=PNewitt link=board=1;threadid=1443;start=0#msg8401 date=1109883626]
I just got this book thing ironed out. No worries. More on that another time.

"IF" Ford makes a 2006+ GT/CS, then, yes, it WILL affect the values of ALL of your CS and HCS cars (hmmm....Ford failed to TM "HCS").

Anyway--I suggest that everyone restore their GT/CS in the next few years...that is, as an investment, just like the '67-'68 Shelbys.

Yes--it will be interesting to see what happens if and when it a late model version comes out. Think of it--people will say "YOU have an ORIGINAL GT/CS"???

Making the new version will bring attention on the originals.

Paul N.
[/quote]

Well first post here, and it is directly related to Ford registering the trademark. I knew a little about the CS but looked at some pictures and am now very interested. One look at David Athans car and now I think I must have one, a driver. I don't think I would want to chance wrecking a real one.

But on a side note I see some very similar things between the CS people and the Mustang SVO people. I have 2 SVO's, the value to people who own them is priceless, but the car will always be in the shadow of the V8s and Cobras even though my little turbocharged 4 bangers can whoop. Oh well long first post.

 

[68gt390]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this makes for interesting conversation.

Everyone keeps talking about a $15,000 to $17,000 range in most of the posts. The majority of those cars have all been small blocks. Let's face it folks no one has seen that many if any "Big Block" CS's going up for sale lately. I can remember the first day I brouhgt mine home from the shipper. I had no sooner parked it in the driveway and had a knock at the front door from 2 folks wanting to know if she was for sale. And yes it's a big block, 4 speed car. Since that day I have had numerous offers and all well above the $25,000.00 range. I've even had an offer from a local restorer who know's the value of these cars. Let's face it, production of a late model CS will do nothing but help raise the bar all around, Small Block and Big Block alike. Within the past several months there has been an elevated interest in my CS from several Diecast Companies simply because it is a Big Block (CS release dtd 2006) could that have anything to do with a possible 06 GT/CS (whole different discussion)? I have and am still promoting the CS everywhere I go from local show's to national events. Even our local Mustang Club has been helping me to promote the car. Another side note: within the past 4 or 5 months here in Central Ohio alone at least 4 more GT/CS cars have appeared. Several new members in our local Mustang Club have CS's and I have steered them to this site. The public interest in the GT/CS and HCS is growing folks and I see it only getting bigger. That's just my take on it.

Don ;D

 

[Mosesatm]

As usual Don has perfectly addressed the issue.

Yes, unfortunately, we are talking about small block cars because the big blocks are in a league of their own, and anyone lucky enough to own one should be revered as a quasi-god.

Just look at the value of a GT350 vs. a GT500, or a 351 Mach 1 vs. a 428 Mach 1, or even a 302 Boss vs. a 429 Boss. I know that last one isn't really fair but I had to get the king of all big blocks in the discussion somehow.

Don is also right on target with how to raise the value of all GT/CSs. We need to show the cars (even the ones we don't think are show worthy) in as many events as possible and tell anyone who is breathing about the cars. I constantly had people trying to get me to put my car in shows but I didn't think it was a show quality car so I never did so. Big mistake. If I had one now I'd show it at every event I could.

The weird thing is that I've never heard anyone complain about the styling of the California Special. Everyone loves how they look and can't believe how those few Shelby parts transformed a fairly frumpy-looking coupe into a thing of beauty. Paul N. alluded to the fact a few weeks ago that the Shelby sylists just flat out nailed it. They couldn't have done a better job.

We have the product....well att least some of you do, while others are still looking....all we need to due is to get the cars where people can see them.

 

[rvrtrash]

OK, I'll step up to the plate, even though I wasn't going to. I'm in my 302-4V, air cond. CS for $24K after the restoration. I didn't plan on spending that, but among other things, the guy that did my fiberglass work did such a poor job, I had to pay someone else to redo it. I bought the car as one of a pair/package deal. I got a 68 CS and a 71 Boss 351, both needing restored, for $11K. The bill of sale shows the CS as being $5K and the Boss $6K so that's what I listed my cost for the car as, even though the Boss was worth more (way more) and the CS less. I've kept track of every dime I spent on an Excel spreadsheet, so I'd know where I was at. With that being said, would I sell my "brand new" CS for $24K? Not a chance!
Steve

 

[PFSlim]

Steve

We did the same thing, got about the same money in it as you do. It drives like a dream, sounds cool, and gets everyone's attention. Just like everyone else on this website.

If it came down to selling it, it would have to be a pile of money. Then, I would have to face my 11 year old son, who worked side by side with us restoring it, and explain to him why I sold it. May have some money but it will cost alot more to have the stake removed from my heart when I bring home that news!!

Paul

 

[68gt390]

Like Steve and Paul, I have kept all receipts on both cars and to be honest I'm afraid to actually sit down and total it all up. For me it's even harder to try and put a price on either one of my cars. Sure, you have your appraisals and your price guides but, how do you put a price on something you've put so much time and effort into. The frustration of trying to find parts or having to redo something because it just didn't look right. I guess someday if I really become desperate I'll total everything up and see were it falls out but, at the present time I don't see selling either one of my cars as an option. I love driving them and just standing and looking at them and knowing every show I go to someone out there is saying "man I wish I had one of those". Just seeing something like that and thinking how did I ever do that gives me a great sense of pride and pleasure. It makes all the frustrations, cuts, busted knuckles and long hours well worth it. Not to mention the friendships I've made, emails and postings I've had with members on this site. Would I do it again, you bet. To me things like that you can't put a price on.

Don

 

[rvrtrash]

Buying and restoring a rare Mustang-$20K+ . Having your car buddies who thought the car was hopeless envy you- Priceless!

Steve (with liberties from Mastercard)

 

[PNewitt]

I would like to know what you think about the popularity (or relative lack thereof) of the GT/CS (and '68 HCS)--as compared to the '68 Shelby. GT/CS cars get 15-20K, '68 Shelby's get 20-45+K. Why such a great discrepancy in values?

Both have relatively same production numbers...

Is is because of:

Not the same engines (Hipo) as the Shelby?

Not "blessed" by Carroll Shelby (even though it was designed by Shelby American for Ford)?

Because it is a coupe?

Because it was sold (mostly) in California? (even though they now are all over the country?)

Because it is "looked down upon" by Mustang purists (the same who look down on Shelbys)? The GT/CS is "the missing link' between the two if there ever was one...

Because it doesn't get enough exposure? (which I don't know why--my books and magazines have shown them enough)...

What do you think? 'Cause I've wondered for years..

thanks--Paul N.

 

[Mustanglvr]

It may be because of the Shelby name. The GT/CS does`nt have the name anywhere other than by association. Rhonda

 

[PNewitt]

Since FORD pretty much took over the Shelby for '68-'70 in Dearborn (and A.O. Smith), the paperwork for the GT/CS went through the same trail as the '68 Shelby, especially the convertible.

--Shelby Automotive designed the GT/CS (originally the GT/SC) in Ionia, Michigan

--And...the SAAC Registry (that huge book) has 2 pages that I wrote about the GT/CS....so...

I'll go so far to say that (by design and engineering) the GT/CS is 75-80% Shelby, and 20-25% Mustang.

Paul N.

 

[Mustanglvr]

I have always heard that the GT/CS was "Shelby inspired", but that really does`nt give a person an idea of how much. You have really put it into perspective Paul. Thanks, Rhonda

 

[rvrtrash]

I'll probably be banned from here for this but here goes. I don't think we're priced considerably less because of power because by '68 the power was the same. If it was power, you could get GT350's for the same price as our cars and only GT500's would demand a premium. Some of it is because it's a coupe, the same as a convertible Shelby brings more than a comparable fastback and some is because of the Shelby name, but that's only because people recognize it. Price is based on supply and demand and if people don't even know it exists, there is no demand. If MCA judges don't even know what a CS is, how is the guy that can't even tell you what year it is going to know? I think another big reason though is us. Over the last two years, I've seen so many posts stating "There's no way it's worth that". When was the last time you saw a Shelby owner saying his car was only really worth $15-17K? Who wants to spend money on something when fellow owners say they really love their worthless car? About a year ago we had a member that went by "Goldie" who doesn't post here anymore. She advertised her brothers' restored 390 CS for, I think, $22K and was ridiculed for it. "It's priced to high", "I don't like the Shelby 10 spokes", etc. I've heard there used to be a cartoon called Pogo who's favorite saying was "We've met the enemy and he is us". I think it applies. I really like everyone on this site, so I hope I've only given you something to think about, not offended you, but we really need to get our acts together if our concern is to have our cars value reflect it's uniqueness.
Steve

 

[hookedtrout]

I'll agree with Steve in a sense. My car is in need of restoration and when the time is right I will undergo that project. Right now it runs fine, it's sitting in the garage under a car cover, it's rust free, it's all there, it's all the original equipment matching numbers. I was offered $20,000 for the car when it was fresh as a daisy in 1983 at the Rick Warner Ford Mustang show in SLC by a guy who had 2 Shelbys in the show. One was a 500 KR convertible with an ultra rare 2 speed rear end. This guy knew Mustangs and Shelbys and he wanted my car. I turned him down for 20,000 in 1983. I'd turn the same dollars down today with the car in need of a complete restoration.

All I can say is that my car is worth what it's worth to me and that's all that matters to me.

Another thing that puts it in perspective is the price of new cars and trucks. A new heavy duty truck all loaded up will run you well into the 40,000 range and with special features such as King Ranch editions you are well into the 50's. And I can guarantee you that isn't an investment that will make you any money.

Hook

 

[hookedtrout]

[quote author=PNewitt link=board=1;threadid=1443;start=15#msg8551 date=1110582469]
I would like to know what you think about the popularity (or relative lack thereof) of the GT/CS (and '68 HCS)--as compared to the '68 Shelby. GT/CS cars get 15-20K, '68 Shelby's get 20-45+K. Why such a great discrepancy in values?

thanks--Paul N.
[/quote]

I personally think the biggest issue is lack of knowledge by the general population which has a direct effect on demand. And I would agree if there is a new CS produced and Ford does a good job of advertising and glorifying it by leaning on the original I think the original will explode in popularity.

Even better would be to use the original colors etc. People with enough money would want one of each (I would ;D and I'm half way there the hard half no less) in the same color for a matched pair and if they have the money they will go after them. I would also venture to guess that you will see one on the big Berrett-Jackson auction block once the popularity of them starts to hit the public and that will also cause a big interest.

Hook

 

[case12]

Being fairly new to the CS (I got mine in November) my perspective is still somewhat that of an outsider. Here are a few of my thoughts:

1. Shelby is a highly recognizable name for decades. The connection between Shelby and the CS is now obvious to me, but I had no idea of the connection before reading Paul's book. If I get the chance I intend to ask Carroll at the May 8 show if HE feels about the connection.
2. General public is unaware of the CS. I sure was, and I have a show quality 66 convertible that sat next to a CS at a show last year, and I had to ask the guy what it was. I know now - but even being a Mustang enthusiast, I did not know then. I even know Shelby owners who never heard of a CS until I showed them mine.
3. PLEASE dont take me wrong on this next thought. In earlier posts I mention that we are not organized as a club or group to market our cars (this is how value is created and perceived). Paul's and Bob's registry is the closest thing to organizing us. This web site is the best I have ever been on (and I would not change it) - but its main function has been communication between current and prospective owners. Maybe we need to organize officially as a separate group, or under an existing group (MCA or SAAC)?

A popular book on marketing called "The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell suggests that 3 things are needed to create ("Tip") to higher value. They are: Well connected people talking it up, Well respected people pushing it, and a "sticky" message. For Shelbys - Shelby was well connected, Shelby and Iacoca were well respected, and the Shelby "muscle" name and image were a "sticky" message in the 60's (and today).

Our challenge is how to do the same for the CS. (Shelby, Paul, Lee Grey???) Casey

 

[PNewitt]

I don't take any "offense" to what Steve might say...I didn't see anything "wrong" out of honesty--something I think is a good thing to talk about , especially here. I want to hear it all, OK?

I wouls say that the GT/CS is better known than the Ski Country Special, and the Twister Special, and that USA limited edition in '71(?). I don't even think many "Mustangers" could I.D. a Hipo motor if they saw one.

THERE was a reason why Shelby didn't market the Little Red car into a Shelby coupe. That is something I need to research for the new book. The ball that Shelby dropped--Lee Grey and Iaccoca picked up. Some people just think that the coupe isn't "sexy" like a fastback or convertible. I guess it doesn't matter that they raced coupes in '66-68 in Trans Am Racing....because they are the lightest of all three body types.

I think if someone made a "GT-500-E inspired" coupe, or a Little Red/Green Hornet type street machine with Total Control parts, crate 514 motor, etc..--and it got promoted in the magazines--it may strike peoples interest towards the GT/CS.

Paul N.

 

[Mosesatm]

Paul, if a new GT/CS is produced do you think it will be with the current fastback style or the convertible or will they add a coupe to the lineup?

Since the original was coupe-only it would be interesting to see what others think of making the new one out of the current fastback styling of the new car. Personally, I would like to see a GT/CS convertible only and skip the fastback version. Yes, I am aware that the original was not offered as a convertible but between the 2 current styles the convertible looks more like the original.

I know a lot of you may blast me for this opinion but I think the current design, from the firewall back, looks cheap and uninspired. The front is nearly perfect but it looks like the designers ran out of creativity, desire, or money when they got to the rear 1/3 of the car.

Without meaning to my wife summed up the new car perfectly the other day we were parked at a stoplight across from the new Mustang. As it was coming towards us she thought it looked great but then as it stopped at the light and she saw the side of the car her opinion changed drastically. All she asked was, "Is it made out of plastic"?

Maybe I'm being too picky but if the GT/CS name goes on a new car I think it should be a special (pun intended) car.

 

[PNewitt]

Rear End made of...plastic??? Whaaat?

Well, yeah...actually--I agree. I really, really want to like this car. It has a few good angles, but it's a hodge-podge of past Mustangs. The nose is '67-'68, anf the rear is '70. Even the side of the eyebrow at the headlight is like a '71.

I keep thinking that they took a 2003, and a '68, and tossed the contours data from both, and "averaged out" the lines out in a 3-D modeling/CAD computer. It looks "squished!! The lines of the '68 had a more graceful look. I think that aerodynamics had a lot to do in making the front look like it's pushed flat.

The rear end needs a lot of help. It sits WAAY too high! As much as I'm "not a fan" of the Saleen cars, you might like to see what they did with the rear end. They cleverly covered each of the inner taillight bars with black plastic (but left the backup lights). The whole rear is "enclosed" with a band of plastic....as part of a new "rubber bum".

http://www.exoticcarsite.com/pages/saleen_mustang_2005.htm

This might work for something for a GT/CS--that is, use a traditional spoiler (i.e. A Roush?)--but do something in black for the rear taillight section. What would be best--is to do something like long, flat T-Bird lights on top of a honeycomb, or satin black textured plastic applique.

To let you in on something--I put a bug in Ford's ear about making a removable hardtop (like a '57 T-Bird) for the GT/CS, so you could make it a coupe--or a convertible roadster, maybe with a tonneau, like the '63 T-Bird, too. Sooo....we'll see.

Cool, huh?

Paul N.

 

[Mosesatm]

The Saleen rear end looks MUCH better!

BTW there was a red Eleanor coupe on ebay a few weeks ago. There is also an Eleanor convertible out there. Both look great.

 

[rvrtrash]

First, Thanks for the support on my post. I really appreciate it. Second, I think Casey might be on to something with the club angle. I would think that the best route would be to become part of the Shelby club, rather than starting our own. They are already established and known, plus that would tie in the Carrol Shelby angle better for us. I would be willing to contact them by email if enough of us here think that I should, although I think someone more knowledgeable like Paul or Jon would be better.
Steve