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Old 03/05/2009, 02:42 PM   #1
Gregpet
 
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Missing VIN

I'm looking at a Mustang that is missing the dash vin plate. The door jam data plate is also missing. The car has just gone through a complete tear-down restoration and is in the process of being put back together. The owner says that the VIN plate got lost. I have not seen it yet but the owner also says that the VIN has been confirmed by the stamp on the unibody inside of the fender.

I wouldn't buy the car unless it was properly vetted by the DMV (not stolen) and that the DMV provides a new state VIN tag, but...

Do you all think there will be a stigma attached to the car considering the missing VIN on the dashpad? I'm worried about the marketability for when I try to sell the car...

Thanks for any input!
Greg
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Old 03/05/2009, 02:57 PM   #2
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Greg,

The V.I.N. should be stamped on the driver side inner fender and most of the time you have to take the fender off to find it. You may even have to take some paint off of the inner fender to read the number. Mine also has the V.I.N. stamped on the passenger side inner fender. Once you have verified that the car is legit you can have a new door tag done by Kevin Marti and the cost isn't very much. The only place to get a replacement dash tag is at www.datatags.com and that one will cost about $300. If the seller isn't willing to help you on this something isn't right.

Cheers,

Ron

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Old 03/05/2009, 04:45 PM   #3
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I was not aware of being able (legally) to replicate a VIN tag. That's a new one on me.
In North Carolina they passed a law last year that ANY vehicle more than 35 years old must be checked by an officer from the DMV to verify the VIN and then run a computer check to verify it's not listed as stolen. I just had this done today on the '68 conv. I just finished. (It came out great, but that's another story.)
The officer also informed me that in NC it is not legal to modify the door tag!! That's incredible. I'd never heard of that before, either.
My long held theory that we will eventually regulate & legislate ourselves out of existance is proving more true every day.

I'll be curious as to how this missing VIN tag quandry works out.

Neil
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Old 03/05/2009, 05:09 PM   #4
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There are plenty of GT/CSs out there to buy. I wouldn't buy one with a VIN issue unless it's a 390 or something pretty rare. If it's a 289 or 302, look for another one.

Scott

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Old 03/05/2009, 06:21 PM   #5
davidathans
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so what if the car is missing the vins and has an repro front driver side fender?

just wondering hypothetically

just looked at mine and i have a sticker that says made in Taiwan, so my driver side fender was replaced at some point so no vin info there...luckily i have my vin and door plate
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Old 03/05/2009, 08:12 PM   #6
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IMHO there is no reason to purchase a car like this and to possibly deal with the related issues. If you already owned it, then its a different matter. Plenty of other cars and options. I would check other options since the dash tag is the legal identification used for registration.
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Old 03/05/2009, 08:34 PM   #7
robert campbell
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Hold the horses here! Opps, I have said that before. Ron is correct. The VIN should be stamped on the INNER fender panel covered by the fender flange that bolts the fender to the inner fender. Many times it can be in all four inner fender panels. In front of the shock tower and behind the shock tower on the flange the fender bolts to. In fact the dash plate or the door are the easiest to be lost in all of this! So first loosen the fender bolts and slide them outward to expose the stampings. You can also see them “inside out” from underneath with the tire off. You can put a piece of paper on the stamping and rub it with a pencil.

There are date codes all over the sheetmetal. If all the sheetmetal is within a couple weeks of each other it is more than likely original sheetmetal.

Get the stamping off the inner fenders. If the same stamping is on both sides and the abbreviated one is in the block or tranny you have a good vin. If the VIN checks out with Marti as a GT/CS, bingo, you are looking at one.

Get your wire brush out and do some investigation. No need to worry if you are careful. Might find a gem in the rough and a good buy. We can’t give up until all 4,000 are found…

Rob
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Old 03/05/2009, 10:32 PM   #8
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Is this a GT/CS?

I would spend the money and get a proper (OEM type Ford) VIN tag and door tag if I were to purchase this car. I am not sure what the State of Texas will issue if you ask them for a replacement.
In and of itself, a non-original replacement VIN tag will create it's own stigmatism.

You are only saying that this is a 1968 Mustang, is it a GT/CS specifically? If it is a Special I would definitely want to see the VIN stamped fender apron and inspect for any alterations. Look in the trunk and carefully inspect the tail light cutouts those seem to be very specifically and purposely cut.

I can get you some pictures if you need them, since my car is currently a shell.

Scott Behncke
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West Coast Classic Cougar A good source for Mustang mechanical parts too.
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Old 03/05/2009, 10:45 PM   #9
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Even though one is sure of the auto's authenticity (via inner fender, engine S/N, and date codes) how does one overcome the legal requirement of having the VIN tag intact? Ron mentioned having a VIN tag reproduced, but I'm not aware of that possiblity - not to mention the legality of doing so. If that is in fact possible, it's news to me.

There ARE ways to give a car a new identity, and I know some folks have done so. But it's not ethical or legal (especially if you get caught), and I would not recommend it.

Neil
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Old 03/06/2009, 06:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregpet View Post
I'm looking at a Mustang that is missing the dash vin plate. The door jam data plate is also missing. The car has just gone through a complete tear-down restoration and is in the process of being put back together. The owner says that the VIN plate got lost. I have not seen it yet but the owner also says that the VIN has been confirmed by the stamp on the unibody inside of the fender.

I wouldn't buy the car unless it was properly vetted by the DMV (not stolen) and that the DMV provides a new state VIN tag, but...

Do you all think there will be a stigma attached to the car considering the missing VIN on the dashpad? I'm worried about the marketability for when I try to sell the car...

Thanks for any input!
Greg
Does the seller have a clear title?
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Old 03/06/2009, 08:57 AM   #11
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I have seen the California Title (although the car is now in Dallas). I don't really have any concern that the car is authentic (although I will confirm by checking the stamping). My real concern is just the stigma issue. I spoke to the DMV yesterday and, after inspection, they will provide a TX VIN tag. This VIN tag will not replace the one under the windshield - it will be attached to the door jam. So I will have a blank where the windshield tag goes...

I apoligize I wasn't more specific earlier but this is actually a 1970 Mach I - I'm still searching for a GT/CS but I may be able to work a pretty good deal on this one (if the VIN issue is resolved).

The car has been completely disassembled for painting so it is reasonable that the VIN tag got knocked off or lost...

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts...
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Old 03/06/2009, 11:05 AM   #12
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Greg,

Let me clear some things up. Kevin Marti can reproduce the door V.I.N. plate as long as you have the proper documentation. Once you have the new door tag you can take a photo copy of the tag and a copy of the DMV registration and contact Datatags.com and they will make you a dash tag. They might require a photo of the V.I.N. on the inner fender along with the other items. They want to make sure that you are not trying to fabricate a car using another car's info.

Kevin Marti is the only company that is licensed by Ford to reproduce the door tags and Datatags is the only company that is licensed by Ford to make the dash tags.

My GT/CS didn't have the dash tag, but had the door tag. When I ordered the top of the line Marti report that is matted and framed it came with a new door tag. I contacted Kevin Marti about the dash tag and he told me that Datatags are the only ones authorized to produce the dash tags.

As I mentioned they won't just arbitrarily make up V.I.N. tags you must provide the proper documentation.

Cheers,

Ron

"You can't build a reputation on what you're going to do." - Henry Ford
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Old 03/06/2009, 11:31 AM   #13
robert campbell
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The funny thing about the dash or door tag is they are so easily removed. The VIN stampings in the inner fender are the most reliable way to identify the car. Certainly having all three match is the best.

If you have the Marti report and pics of the inner panel stampings and so on, it is authentic as any other car in my mind. If one wanted to, they could remove the dash plate, door tag, and the inner panels and install on another car. Poof, who is to know. First, is the VIN in the Marti database as a GT/CS.

ANY car should be thoroughly inspected for alterations. Look at all the date codes of the cars sheetmetal. Do they match roughly with the build date of the door tag. Do they match each other. There are date codes on the steering box tag and engine casting numbers. They are never the same day, but the date codes on the sheetmetal are usually a bit before the build date.

If all of this starts to line up you have a car that is what it was on the assembly line.

In Washington if you had this situation, they State Patrol will take it behind close doors and look for the VIN’s on the inner panels and anywhere else. They will then determine if it stolen or not. Once verified and if your title matches the “hidden” VIN’s they will put a tag in the door jam with a special number. You are then good to go. And the state has determined that the VIN is the correct VIN that was on the original title.

Rob
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Old 03/06/2009, 12:02 PM   #14
davidathans
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Does anyone have a picture of the VIN stampings on the inner fender? i can't seem to find mine, probably not looking in the right place
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Old 03/06/2009, 12:49 PM   #15
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David,

You may have to take the fender off to get to the number. They were suppose to stamp the number so you could read it without taking the fender off, but that didn't always happen. I had to take my fender off to find it plus go through about 3 layers of paint.

Cheers,

Ron

"You can't build a reputation on what you're going to do." - Henry Ford
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