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Old 01/31/2009, 01:19 PM   #1
Russ
 
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Question for Paul Newitt Regarding the Sequence of Assembly

As I reassemble my latest GT/CS project (my lime gold GT/CS built on March 9), I find myself comparing my earlier car (the Highland green GT/CS built on Feb 14) with the later car. As I began to install the rear quarter window and the quarter window guide assembly (pn: C7ZB 6529752-3) into the March car, I noted there was no stamped hole in the guide assembly of the March car. My February car has a 1 1/4" hole stamped into the guide assembly that allows the assembly line worker to install any washers and thread the nut onto the stud of the GT/CS side scoop. It became clear, that without the stamped hole in the guide assembly, the rear quarter window assembly would have to be installed after the side scoop.

Here is the question: Did all GT/CS Mustangs have a stamped hole in the guide plate, or was this just an "early" modification to allow the installation of the side scoop after the rear window was installed? OR: Have my March car's guide plates been replaced, and should they have the stamped hole?

It seems reasonable that Ford would stop stamping holes (a cost avoidance measure) in the guide plate and simply install the side scoop prior to installing the rear quarter window assembly, but, if that's the case, then the earlier cars could have been assembled in a different sequence regarding the scoop and rear quarter window. All this is just more minutia regarding our GT/CS cars, but I'm just curious as I've not read any thread on this subject.

Thanks, Russ
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Old 01/31/2009, 04:11 PM   #2
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Since there's a thread with my name in it, I guess I should answer it quickly! LOL!

Thanks for this question....hmmm...I've never had to think about this, and I need to pull out my ford diagrams to understand what you mean by the guide plate on the window mechanism (??).

What I can tell you is that the Feb cars and the March cars had a few differences, the most noticeable is the taillight panel sticks out farther on the earlier cars--since this was the first time that fiberglass was installed at a Ford Factory anywhere.

Anyway...the side scoop was most likely attached before the quarter window works went in there. The side stripes may have been installed too.

I know that the workers did NOT like working on speciality Mustangs, for all the unique problems in assembly.

Would you happen to have any good photos of the scoop nut attached next to the window mechanism IN the car?? If you could post that (or from anyone else) that would be a huge help.

This is a great question...sorry I don't have an exact answer for you right now, but I'll get back to this ASAP.

Paul.
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Old 01/31/2009, 06:09 PM   #3
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Paul,
Thanks for the prompt reply. The window guide assembly is a galvanized, retangular plate that holds the window glides. This "plate" completely covers the stud/nut holding the GT/CS side scoop and does not allow any access to this nut without the stamped hole. I assumed the 1 1/4" stamped hole was so the workers could gain access to the stud while they installed the side scoop, but that is only an assumption. Personally, I liked being able to install the rear window first, and then the scoop, as I did on my February car, but I just wasn't able to do so this on the March car. I will send you a photo, but you will not be able to see the stud.
Thanks again, Russ
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Old 01/31/2009, 08:36 PM   #4
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Russ, just finished having the rear window frames chrome plated on my April 03 built CS. (VIN 8R01J155374) There are no access holes for the side scoops. Or I should say there WERE no access holes for them. I drilled holes with a hole saw in the window plates. Someone had taken the scoops off when the car was painted and had "hacked up" that area and bent a portion in order to get to the scoops. This was done in such a terrible fashion that the windows hit the bent portion and would not roll all of the way down - and this was on both sides. I straightened the window mechanism plate and drilled a 1 1/2" hole in it. Now the windows look good, work well and if I ever do a repaint the scoops can be removed without taking the complex window mechanisms all of the way out of the car. I realized while doing this that the SJ assembly plant had installed the scoops before the window assembly was put in and adjusted. By the way, plating the pot metal portions of the windows and vent window frames along with polishing the stainless surrounding parts sure puts a nice touch on a car. It is a major job but the results make an average car look far better. Hope this helps you.
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Old 01/31/2009, 09:50 PM   #5
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our's was built on April 29th with no hole...what a pain installing the nut for the scoop.
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Old 01/31/2009, 09:59 PM   #6
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Mine is a March car and "no hole" for scoop. After a lot of choice words and scrapped knuckles, I was able to twist my arm around and get the nut on.

Bret
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Old 02/01/2009, 09:48 PM   #7
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This is so fun!!

We have been led to believe that these cars where destined down the line from start of assembly to be GT/CS cars with sheetmetal “punchings” to support that. It is obvious that the early cars were not, and pulled off the line to become GT/CS cars. I have been in both sides of my car and you had to remove the rear window regulators and guides to attach the side scoop nut. No other way, unless you had some small hands and very “bendy” arms and fingers.

I have maintained that the “before the debut” cars came down the line as regular Mustangs and were pulled to the side to become GT/CS cars. Just like the Shelby cars. Trunk lids and end caps deleted. Pulled to the side, and given the grill, the scoops, the trunk lid and end caps, the stripes, and then drill the quarters to put on the script. Very easy to do down the line.

“After” the debut, they may have been GT/CS cars from inception but they came down the line and were taken aside and assigned the GT/CS option. Again, just like Shelby cars. This does not diminish their authenticity as genuine GT/CS cars. But to assume that the quarter panels were stamped prior to assembly is untrue and not economical for Ford. Especially when you consider that there were two different quarter panels. Early with the recessed reflector and later with the add on reflector. Couple that with the fact that there were no replacement quarters later for wrecked cars.

The holes for the side scoop center stud are “rough”, as we have seen. If the quarters were punched, then why not the side scoop stud hole? Again points to the fact that way down the line they were pulled to a “special area” just like Ford learned from Carroll Shelby. The scoop holes earlier for after the debut GT/CS ordered cars. Before the window regulators. Rough a hole and attach the scoops.

Again, genuine cars, and a genuine option! But in my humble opinion, “after the debut” these cars did not start with GT/CS “punched” quarters or side scoop holes, nor taillight panels with one rib remove, nor window regulators with special holes for the side scoop stud nut, nor hoods with hood twist lock hold-downs as they came down the line. They came down the line with the rear wiring harness, the fog harness, and the scoops installed before the regulators. Install the black out grill. Before the debut, none of that!!

Then pull it off the side and install the rest of the option. The hood locks, the trunk lid and end caps, the script, and the stripes.

This does not diminish the cars!! It makes them more "Shelbyish"!!

Rob
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Old 02/02/2009, 05:04 PM   #8
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None of the blueprints for the sidescoops refer to this. There is painstaking detail on the blueprints for the rear light plates and the "California Special", as well as the fog lights and hood pins. So, my guess is that these changes were not "designed" but done on the factory floor - likely something the "design" people didnt think about in the assembly process - and something the factory floor had to contend with (I bet there is still cursing over this issue hanging in space over San Jose ) Casey

Last edited by case12; 02/02/2009 at 05:16 PM..

1968 GT/CS on cover and featured article, "Gold Rush", in Mustang Times, February 2006
1966 Convertible featured article, "Sweet '66' ", in Mustang Times, January 2008
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Old 02/02/2009, 05:11 PM   #9
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My car has a late June production date due to be built in July and when restoring it I had to take out the entire quarter window frame, not fun, No holes.
Eric

My 1968 GT/CS is my 7th classc Mustang
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Old 02/02/2009, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8GR868 View Post
My car has a late June production date due to be built in July and when restoring it I had to take out the entire quarter window frame, not fun, No holes.
Eric
I know that one, Eric. Over the years on all the HCS cars that I've done, I'd get the neighbor boy, Zane, starting when he was 8-9 years old (he just turned 26) to put his small hand with the nut in his fingers, start and finger tighten the nut and then with a closed end wrench, snug up the nut. On my latest car (CS), the body shop took all the window hardware out doing their "thing", I noticed, so I had them drill a big 1 and a half inch hole in those 8x12" plates so I could stick a socket w/ an extension in there if I ever needed to replace or repair the scoops. In fact, thats how the shop mounted the scoops after shaping and painting them. Easy goings, mounting and snugging these nuts this way. Bob here.
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Old 02/02/2009, 07:44 PM   #11
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OK....you "made me" go look this up in my notes....

I have a copy of the DSO ADD/Delete list for the '68 CS (It will be in the book).

Regarding the side scoop....it says that the nut for the scoop (in the middle), is a 1/4 - 20 size nut. No note on whether there was a washer of any kind or not (but I would add a lock washer during restoration, or use Locktight, etc...)

The screws are listed as: "rustless steel" type, at #10 - 16 x 3/4

All it says is to use these two parts of hardware to "Att. Scoop to BodyQtr. Side".

There is also a mention of: "Sealer Ext. Stud to Outside of Rear Quarter" ( #ESB-M4G-32-A). And I've seen sealant put around the area where the scoop attaches (on the rear Qtr.) on cars over the years.

And for fun, the black material behind the scoop screen was "Mylar tape- Rear Air Scoop Low Gloss Black, FE148"

There is a reference to a template for the hood pin holes, but no reference to any factory templates for holes cut for the taillight panel plates, nor the side scoop mounting hole.

I've seen these holes punched, and rough, and weird shapes, and even a nice drilled hole. No doubt, this was an on-the-spot factory decision, and they probably had a jig attached to a drill that sat in the depression on the side of the quarter panel. I'm thinking that this was a 1/2" tolerance type of hole.

There IS a special GT/CS part number for the front fenders, since they had no holes drilled for the horse and bars emblems; but no part numbers for the rear quarters--confirming the "at the factory" mod while on the line. I happened to think....since the fenders are unique to the CS, then is the Mustang script emblems in the same, exact location as a standard '68 Mustang fender? I've never checked that. Who has both??? Pull out the calipers and let us know.

There were no cars destined at standard Mustangs, "pulled aside" to convert them into GT/CSs. The cars for the "debut" (Feb 15th event in L.A.) were standard production CSs, presumably sold to local L.A. dealers after the event. Production was already a couple of weeks into it when these cars were made. Most likely, there were some factory glitches, and a learning curve for some of these assemblies, but the CS was built as a CS from the beginning. We DO have some early anomalies with parts blueprints and production dates that I need to reinterpret. It was a MADHOUSE there at the Milpitas Plant, but I'm sure that they improvised, to our head-scratching 40 years later.

So--let me get this right...some of you have holes in the rear quarter window plate for access to the side scoop mounting nut--and others have no hole there, and the nut is hidden behind that plate? I'm pretty sure that the installation of the interior was after the (major) body items were attached on the line (Jeff Speegle--no/yes??).

Paul.
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Old 02/02/2009, 08:28 PM   #12
CougarCJ
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My February 5th Cal Special has the above described hole, but only on the passenger side.

My car would have been one of the early converted GT/CS's, I guess?

Russ, your car is a Valentines day special.

GT/VS/CS

I looked up the part number for the Quarter window guide in the MPC. Nothing special and no notations, it has a 1967 Ford part number.

I don't believe that this stamped hole was done during the stamping of the quarter window guide by the pressman.
My observations: the hole is round, but has sharp edges on the back side. Might have been done by a hole saw? Only the guide plate, not the inside quarter panel. It can only be seen by looking down into the window channel from the top.

Scott Behncke
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Old 02/02/2009, 10:32 PM   #13
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They kinda went "hole saw" crazy on this Mustang....

The underside holes on the hood were cut with a hole saw, too.

They probably had a place on the line where the hood was cut the ribs and holes cut on the taillight panel, and the side scoop holes--done all at once.

It would be interesting if there were any metal filings down in that area below the qtr. window mechanism--from the side scoop hole.

Not that I'd want to burden anyone (again!!! LOL) to go look...
(which BTW, if someone does...you'll find a pigtail there on the harness as it goes by, presumably to hook up deluxe interior lights).

Thanks!

Paul.
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Old 02/04/2009, 08:44 AM   #14
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This is very interesting, because my early car has holes punched on both left and right window guides, BUT on the left guide, it appears that the hole wasn't punched in the correct location and there are two overlapping holes!! It appears the individual doing the punching didn't get it right the first time. I also wonder if there was some sort of template used to indicate where to punch these holes? Also, the edges of the holes in the guides are very sharp and appear to be punched and not cut with a hole saw. Again, just more minutia!! Russ
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