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Old 05/05/2007, 04:55 PM   #1
C160223
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what happen to?

the "sticky" thread Jason started with the GT/CS production stats gathered from the "elite" marti reports? Was it moved or deleted?

John P
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Old 05/05/2007, 05:49 PM   #2
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It was deleted due to copyright concerns by Kevin Marti and Paul Newitt. Sorry.

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Old 05/05/2007, 06:02 PM   #3
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that kinda stinks.

the 428 CJ site has the following info listed but we cannot list data on this site that was paid for?

Quote:
Here are some additional production statistics describing body style, engine, and transmission combinations gleaned from reports produced by Marti Auto Works. There are still some holes to be filled in here, so please consider sharing a copy of your Marti report if you have statistics that aren't listed here:

1968 R-code sportsroof with manual transmission: 1,236
1968 R-code sportsroof with automatic (code U, C-6) transmission: 860
1968 R-code sportsroof with automatic (code W, C-4) transmission: 1
1968 R-code coupe with manual transmission: 102
1968 R-code coupe with automatic transmission: 119
1968 R-code convertible with manual transmission: 278
1968 R-code convertible with automatic transmission: 274

1969 Q-code sportsroof with manual transmission: 1,485
1969 Q-code sportsroof with automatic transmission: 1,274
1969 R-code non-Shelby sportsroof: 10,130
1969 R-code sportsroof with manual transmission: 6,473
1969 R-code non-Shelby sportsroof with manual transmission: 5,853
1969 R-code sportsroof with automatic transmission: 5,192
1969 Q-code Grande with automatic transmission: 28
1969 Q-code Grande with manual transmission: 9
1969 Q-code coupe (including Grande) with automatic transmission: 63
1969 R-code coupe with manual transmission: 86
1969 R-code coupe with automatic transmission: 52
1969 R-code GT sportsroof: 246
1969 R-code GT sportsroof with manual transmission: 152
1969 R-code GT sportsroof with automatic transmission: 94
1969 R-code SCJ GT sportsroof with manual transmission, V- or W-code axle: 50
1969 R-code SCJ GT sportsroof with automatic transmission, W-code axle: 11
1969 Q-code convertible with manual transmission: 20
1969 Q-code convertible with automatic transmission: 30
1969 Q-code GT convertible: 30
1969 Q-code GT convertible with automatic transmission: 21
1969 Q-code GT convertible with manual transmission: 9
1969 R-code GT convertible: 58

1970 R-code Mach 1 sportsroof with manual transmission: 1,371
1970 R-code Mach 1 sportsroof with automatic transmission: 1,130
1970 Q-code Mach 1 sportsroof with manual transmission: 320
1970 Q-code Mach 1 sportsroof with automatic transmission: 364
1970 Mach 1 sportsroof with SCJ engine: 857
1970 R-code sportsroof (non-Mach 1) with automatic transmission: 247
1970 R-code sportsroof (non-Mach 1) with manual transmission: 249
1970 Q-code sportsroof (non-Mach 1) with automatic transmission: 29
1970 Q-code sportsroof (non-Mach 1) with manual transmission: 42
1970 Q-code Grande with automatic transmission: 13

Note: there were no R-code Grandes produced in 1969 or 1970.


??????????????????????

Last edited by 390cs68rcode; 05/05/2007 at 06:29 PM..

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Old 05/05/2007, 06:55 PM   #4
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Jason, I think I put your data into an Excel spreadsheet. Let me know if you want it and I'll send it to you. Anyone else want it?
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Old 05/05/2007, 08:43 PM   #5
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I'd like it, Arlie.

Thanks,
Joe

Joe

HP numbers are good and all, but they're like asking someone how much they can bench. What difference does it make, if I can still kick your ass.
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Old 05/05/2007, 09:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joedls View Post
I'd like it, Arlie.

Thanks,
Joe
...Yes, me too. Thank You Jason for your efforts and Arlie for preservation. :-)

Tim
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Old 05/05/2007, 09:24 PM   #7
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The information Jason worked so hard to get is going be included in Pauls book, right ?

John
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Old 05/06/2007, 12:00 PM   #8
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I feel that I should explain something here, since Jon mentioned that I had a hand in this removal.

It has nothing to do whether Jason "worked so hard" on this list, but it's a matter of whether this posted information had compromised the copyright(s) that is held by Kevin Marti.

I notified Kevin, ONLY as an advisory--not as a "demand"--that this information posted on the internet may compromise his tightly-held copyrights with Ford. It was then up to Kevin to decide what to do from there.

Kevin Marti spend thousands of dollars, and lots of difficult legal work with Ford to get the numbers data that he has today for thousands of Mustangs. This is his business. Each and every Marti Report also has a copyright at the bottom of each form, too. Copyrights are serious business, and there have been civil lawsuits over them.

A few months ago (for a lot of money) we purchased my "wish list" of GT/CS data for the book, which included the engine/transmission numbers, but much, much more, such as numbers of cars sent to each DSO, options (in detail), interior colors and type, etc. etc., along with breakdowns by CS or HCS.

When we recieved this information, we were to abide by strict guidelines of it's use, and how it was to be presented in the book.

Since I have invested in this material, I have a stake in protecting that investment. In no way was this a spiteful act; purely a legal one, protecting that investment. I apologize if this has offended anyone, but I hope you see it from my point of view--and that it was Kevin's decision to take this action or not.

Any other author or magazine writer could visit this site, pick up the numbers and be paid for that article. I've seen this happen many times with my own numbers from my 1989 book (which of course, have changed since the Marti report). Seeing this data in another Mustang book--before mine could be printed would compromise part of the value of my book.

I hope that you understand my position, and so here is my honest explaination.

Thank You,

Paul.
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Old 05/06/2007, 01:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNewitt View Post
I feel that I should explain something here, since Jon mentioned that I had a hand in this removal.

It has nothing to do whether Jason "worked so hard" on this list, but it's a matter of whether this posted information had compromised the copyright(s) that is held by Kevin Marti.

I notified Kevin, ONLY as an advisory--not as a "demand"--that this information posted on the internet may compromise his tightly-held copyrights with Ford. It was then up to Kevin to decide what to do from there.

Kevin Marti spend thousands of dollars, and lots of difficult legal work with Ford to get the numbers data that he has today for thousands of Mustangs. This is his business. Each and every Marti Report also has a copyright at the bottom of each form, too. Copyrights are serious business, and there have been civil lawsuits over them.

A few months ago (for a lot of money) we purchased my "wish list" of GT/CS data for the book, which included the engine/transmission numbers, but much, much more, such as numbers of cars sent to each DSO, options (in detail), interior colors and type, etc. etc., along with breakdowns by CS or HCS.

When we recieved this information, we were to abide by strict guidelines of it's use, and how it was to be presented in the book.

Since I have invested in this material, I have a stake in protecting that investment. In no way was this a spiteful act; purely a legal one, protecting that investment. I apologize if this has offended anyone, but I hope you see it from my point of view--and that it was Kevin's decision to take this action or not.

Any other author or magazine writer could visit this site, pick up the numbers and be paid for that article. I've seen this happen many times with my own numbers from my 1989 book (which of course, have changed since the Marti report). Seeing this data in another Mustang book--before mine could be printed would compromise part of the value of my book.

I hope that you understand my position, and so here is my honest explaination.

Thank You,

Paul.
Thanks Paul,
Thats just what I thought was happening. I understand your position fully.
No offence was ever taken by me or anyone I can think of.

John
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Old 05/06/2007, 02:27 PM   #10
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Hi Arlie
could i get a copy if you have it
thanks
Joe

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Old 05/06/2007, 06:25 PM   #11
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Arlie;
I'd like a copy of it if you don't mind.

I have one question in regards to this - well maybe 2. Maybe I have all this wrong but, I pay Kevin Marti for my "Marti report" on my car. I can show that marti report with my car without any problem correct because it has all the Marti acknowledgements etc. etc. But, I can't share that information with a private person if I want to even though I've paid for that report? I don't understand the problem as long as when you publish those figures/numbers you give credit to where they came from (i,e, "copied from "MartiAutoWorks").
I don't know, I'm not a patent, copy right lawyer so I'd like to have that explained? To be perfectly honest with you those figures could be copied by anybody who reads my "Marti Repot" that is displayed with my car or any other Mustang that has their report displayed.

Don

Last edited by 68gt390; 05/06/2007 at 06:39 PM..

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Old 05/06/2007, 07:09 PM   #12
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"...and I don't even play a lawyer on TV!" LOL!!

I left the decision of the legal ins-and-outs up to Kevin, and Jon to decide what to do.

There is a certain amount of "fair use" when you buy your report. Presenting it to your friends; shown at car shows, etc., is fine. Buying a Marti report doesn't mean that you "own" the data. My purchase of the data is for the specific use of it in my book, but I don't "own" it, either. Having it posted on the internet compromises that investment.

It's no longer a private sharing when it's posted on the internet. That is similar to publishing. A similar problem exists when people use movie clips for YouTube posts; and, YouTube got into trouble from the studios.

So, like I said, it was Kevin's decision to take whatever action he chose to take.

I hope this makes sense...

Paul N.
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Old 05/06/2007, 10:27 PM   #13
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...Well in that context, we need to delete the "Post your Marti Report Here" thread as well. For that matter - delete all statistical and helpful information until we sort out who to credit (or pay) for what...

I can see you or someone maybe asking Jason to cite his sources with due respect for his efforts in educating we enthusiasts. But instead - we blow the wistle and risk another "Ford vs Mustangs Plus" scenario here at home.

I mean - legally, you're right. But what's the point of having this site (except socially) if we can't repeat data and answer questions without whipping out the checkbook while standing on one foot in a bed of egg shells?

If you enforce every copyright law to its extreme interpretation - None of us should be here posting anything that was created by someone else! The liability is too great. Think about it...

Tim
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Old 05/06/2007, 11:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Special View Post
...Well in that context, we need to delete the "Post your Marti Report Here" thread as well. For that matter - delete all statistical and helpful information until we sort out who to credit (or pay) for what...

I can see you or someone maybe asking Jason to cite his sources with due respect for his efforts in educating we enthusiasts. But instead - we blow the wistle and risk another "Ford vs Mustangs Plus" scenario here at home.

I mean - legally, you're right. But what's the point of having this site (except socially) if we can't repeat data and answer questions without whipping out the checkbook while standing on one foot in a bed of egg shells?

If you enforce every copyright law to its extreme interpretation - None of us should be here posting anything that was created by someone else! The liability is too great. Think about it...
I realize that this stirs up the "gosh darnit" factor, like a lawyer keeping kids out of a playground so they don't accidently get bark pieces up their noses....LOL.

The point here is that Kevin Marti paid thousands of dollars for that data. It's from reel-to-reel IBM tapes at Ford (circa 1967-72). He struggled very hard to get that data. It took years for him to get what he did, and he must adhere to Ford's rules about how it is dispersed. Yes, I know, Tim, I also think it's like "brow-beating the innocent", but it's the rules, and well, we need to play by those rules on this one subject...It also seems like a loose cannon of legalities, but it's not really that bad.

I can understand the thought: "hey, it's amongst friends here, no harm intended". But posting here is actually posting to the WHOLE, entire world. AND....Anyone can quote what anyone posts here (text or photos, etc.) in a book, or magazine article, etc., since it's like public domain.

I would prefer this be done later, but Jon can approach Kevin to see if and what he could use in terms of basic GT/CS data for the history part of this website. But, that is up to Kevin--and Jon, too. Maybe when my book is out, I can arrange to have some snippets of data used like a web review--with Kevin's permission.

Paul N.
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Old 05/07/2007, 12:14 AM   #15
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...So be it. But for the record - anything I share here; be it photos, artwork, research or day to day reflection is open for use to anyone for any purpose and for pleasure, not for my profit. Otherwise - I would propose Jon to initiate a "Post your PayPal Account # Here" thread for answers to specific questions...
;-)

Last edited by Midnight Special; 05/07/2007 at 08:52 AM..

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