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Old 11/14/2016, 12:00 PM   #1
cmacias24
 

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Engine questions (289 2-V AT)

Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an original GT/CS matching numbers, 289 2-V, AT, PS, PDB, A/C, car with the odometer reading 95k. While the car was complete and running there were some red flags which caught my attention when I took the car home and I'd like your recommendation on what to do. I've degreased the engine and it had oil residue everywhere from what I can tell. When I purchased the car, the seller said he had changed the point to a petronix system, coil, wire, plugs, harmonic balancer, rebuilt the carb (70's style motorcraft 2100), starter solenoid, voltage meter, and the steering end links. The car has a very small misfire so I figured he tried to solve it with these parts. The car doesn't smoke, runs sluggish, but okay. So far I've degreased the car, changed the valve cover gaskets, changed the oil pan (was leaking), changed the carb to a proper autolite 2100, changed distributor to a the property autolite single vacuum distributor. So here's what I've found in the process.

1. Some rocker arms are a little loose, but don't make a tapping noise (at least not that I could hear). Two rocker arms looked newer than the rest which I suspect were changed at some point in it's left.
2. The timing chain has slack on one side, but tight on the other (felt this when I changed the oil pan)The oil pan looked original and the seals were leaking.
3. No metal shavings were in the oil pan, just some hard crud (maybe gasket stuff)
4. The rear seal is leaking (from the bell housing)
5. Since I've degreased the car, oil is puddling in the rear intake location by the bell housing.
6. It has a little misfire (someone said it's prob the intake gasket failing)
7. Compression test is 110-120 all cyls, and plugs look good.
8. I changed the oil within 200 miles and the oil was really black when I changed the oil pan.
9. Timing is set to 9 degrees, but I'm about to change the distributor since I suspect the vacuum is failing.

At this point I know I need to install a new intake gasket, timing chain and rebuild the tranny which at that point I can fix the rear seal. My question to you all, is should I just rebuild the engine or should I do a head job?I'd hate to go through the process of repairing these leaks to only find out that I should have rebuilt the whole thing. Thanks in advance!
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Old 11/14/2016, 05:27 PM   #2
Ruppstang
 
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If it were mine I would just go though it and be done with it. While it is out you can clean up the engine bay. Sure it will cost some $$$ but you will have peace of mind when you are driving it and can be proud to open the hood.
Good luck and welcome here.
Marty

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Old 11/14/2016, 06:06 PM   #3
franklinair
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Sounds like a tired engine to me. IIRC, compressions should be 130+. And as Marty said, take advantage of the engine removal to sanitize the engine compartment. That's what I did with mine.

Neil
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Old 11/14/2016, 08:09 PM   #4
dalorzo_f
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All good advice. But have one tangential question.

"changed distributor to a the property autolite single vacuum distributor."

I just replaced the dizzy on a very original C code. The date on the existing dizzy was spot on for the car's build date, and showed wear to say it "could" be the original, I beleive so as the car was fairly unmolested, just tired. And it was a dual diaphragm.

'68 Shop Manual shows only the 302-4V with single port advance.... can anyone confirm which is correct for the C code?
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Old 11/14/2016, 09:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalorzo_f View Post
All good advice. But have one tangential question.

"changed distributor to a the property autolite single vacuum distributor."

I just replaced the dizzy on a very original C code. The date on the existing dizzy was spot on for the car's build date, and showed wear to say it "could" be the original, I beleive so as the car was fairly unmolested, just tired. And it was a dual diaphragm.

'68 Shop Manual shows only the 302-4V with single port advance.... can anyone confirm which is correct for the C code?
That is correct a 68 C code should use a C8 OF 12127 C with a duel advance.

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Old 11/16/2016, 04:24 PM   #6
robert campbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmacias24 View Post
Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an original GT/CS matching numbers, 289 2-V, AT, PS, PDB, A/C, car with the odometer reading 95k. While the car was complete and running there were some red flags which caught my attention when I took the car home and I'd like your recommendation on what to do. I've degreased the engine and it had oil residue everywhere from what I can tell. When I purchased the car, the seller said he had changed the point to a petronix system, coil, wire, plugs, harmonic balancer, rebuilt the carb (70's style motorcraft 2100), starter solenoid, voltage meter, and the steering end links. The car has a very small misfire so I figured he tried to solve it with these parts. The car doesn't smoke, runs sluggish, but okay. So far I've degreased the car, changed the valve cover gaskets, changed the oil pan (was leaking), changed the carb to a proper autolite 2100, changed distributor to a the property autolite single vacuum distributor. So here's what I've found in the process.

1. Some rocker arms are a little loose, but don't make a tapping noise (at least not that I could hear). Two rocker arms looked newer than the rest which I suspect were changed at some point in it's left.
2. The timing chain has slack on one side, but tight on the other (felt this when I changed the oil pan)The oil pan looked original and the seals were leaking.
3. No metal shavings were in the oil pan, just some hard crud (maybe gasket stuff)
4. The rear seal is leaking (from the bell housing)
5. Since I've degreased the car, oil is puddling in the rear intake location by the bell housing.
6. It has a little misfire (someone said it's prob the intake gasket failing)
7. Compression test is 110-120 all cyls, and plugs look good.
8. I changed the oil within 200 miles and the oil was really black when I changed the oil pan.
9. Timing is set to 9 degrees, but I'm about to change the distributor since I suspect the vacuum is failing.

At this point I know I need to install a new intake gasket, timing chain and rebuild the tranny which at that point I can fix the rear seal. My question to you all, is should I just rebuild the engine or should I do a head job?I'd hate to go through the process of repairing these leaks to only find out that I should have rebuilt the whole thing. Thanks in advance!
I think your compression although not to new specs is not that bad. Did you block the throttle plates open and give each cylinder at least 6 pulses? Not sure how deep your pockets are, but I would not be afraid to get some more miles out of it. As a Sunday driver it will last many years. Replacing the pan gasket, intake gasket and servicing the timing chain will be a great approach. I would also look at the exhaust valve stem seals. They get petrified over the years and disintegrate. They could be the hard pieces you found in the pan.

Keep in mind that a 2 barrel 289 with 3.00 or 2.79 gears is not a ball of fire. We need to get a known distributor with a single diaphragm vacuum advance. Most have adjustable vacuum advance these days and we can real dial in your advance curve for max power.

As Sunday driver you will put less that 1,000 miles a year I bet. You approach will let you really clean up the engine and even the engine bay. But if you have the bucks, then go ahead and rebuild it. The above is easily below 200 to 300 bucks. What ya got to loose but some time on your part?

Rob
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Old 11/16/2016, 09:01 PM   #7
cmacias24
 

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Hi everyone,
Thanks for your input. After long consideration, I've decided to go the rebuild route. I've located a reputable engine guy who has quoted me 3k to rebuild my engine and blueprint and balance with a solid guarantee. Originally I wanted to keep the car stock since it has factory A/C and I didn't want to have any problems, but wanted to ask you for your input.
Should I consider modifying the cam? Lifters? Rocker Arms? What do you guys think?
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Old 11/16/2016, 11:14 PM   #8
robert campbell
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Roller rockers are a cheap upgrade. Retrofit hydraulic roller cam is a bit more spendy but a nice upgrade. The big power adder for your engine is a set of after market aluminum heads coupled with headers, an upgraded cam, and a four barrel carb. That will really wake up a bunch of horsepower.

Heads are the big expenditure. the rest must be done to realize a huge HP gain. I can step you through our choices to build a great package!

You need to decide your goal.

Rob
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Old 11/21/2016, 05:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert campbell View Post
Roller rockers are a cheap upgrade. Retrofit hydraulic roller cam is a bit more spendy but a nice upgrade. The big power adder for your engine is a set of after market aluminum heads coupled with headers, an upgraded cam, and a four barrel carb. That will really wake up a bunch of horsepower.

Heads are the big expenditure. the rest must be done to realize a huge HP gain. I can step you through our choices to build a great package!

You need to decide your goal.

Rob
Would swapping a set of E7TE heads from a 94 GT be worth it?
Also I have a late model CS with a 302 block. Would the 302 crank from my 94 GT work in my 289?

Bruce Wertman
1968 Brittany Blue Mustang California Special #168021
1994 White Mustang GT Convertible.
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Old 11/21/2016, 06:46 PM   #10
CougarCJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmacias24 View Post
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your input. After long consideration, I've decided to go the rebuild route. I've located a reputable engine guy who has quoted me 3k to rebuild my engine and blueprint and balance with a solid guarantee. Originally I wanted to keep the car stock since it has factory A/C and I didn't want to have any problems, but wanted to ask you for your input.
Should I consider modifying the cam? Lifters? Rocker Arms? What do you guys think?
Depends, are you keeping the cast iron intake, Autolite 2V carburetor, and single exhaust? Then get a mild 289/302 cam and new lifters. Always inspect the rockers and push rods, and keep them matched to each other. Replace if you find excessive wear or bent push rods. Ask your engine guy if his estimate includes replacing rockers and push rods. Also if he is putting in hardened valve seats on the exhaust side of the cylinder heads.
Keep in mind most all new cams will have the 351W firing order.

Scott Behncke
1968 GT/CS 302-4V Honors flysis income beezis onches nobis inob keesis
West Coast Classic Cougar A good source for Mustang mechanical parts too.
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