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Old 02/08/2014, 04:32 PM   #1
njmop
 
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Question Rebuilt C4 is in but won't start or engage gear

First of all, I am finally reassembling my GT/CS in efforts to be able to start/move it while I continue to work on finishing it, so there could be more going on BUT here is my issue:

Car won't start and I can't get the trans to engage in Park or any gear.

I installed the trans over a year ago, moved, towed it to my new house and never did much more. Was rebuilt by local shop recommended by a Mustang specialist/classic car guy.

I recently hooked up all my under hood wiring, new battery, fluids, hoses, etc, and figured I'd see if the car would turn over. Nothing, no starter engaged, just dead. I checked to ensure I didn't have the car in gear but that wasn't the case. The car is acting like it is in neutral from P thru 2, I could roll the car forward and back without resistance or stopping in any shift position!

The linkage is connected to the shifter, kickdown connected, but no resistance. So is this wrong, if so, what could be wrong? Why would the car just roll? Do I need to build pressure in the trans or something? I put in about 4 quarts of fluid and wanted to start and top off at warmup but I am at a loss.

Am I overlooking something simple or should I start worrying?

Any help is appreciated and I could clarify my ramblings if needed...

Thanks.

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/08/2014, 05:21 PM   #2
robert campbell
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did you plug in the wire coming up from the tranny (square 2 female and 2 male) into the plug coming through the fire wall? It kinda near the throttle linkage at the fire wall but towards the master cylinder?

Lots more checks we can do.. answer this first.
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Old 02/09/2014, 06:44 AM   #3
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The plug from the trans to firewall is connected.

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/09/2014, 07:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njmop View Post
The plug from the trans to firewall is connected.
Your shift rod and or neutral switch may be out of adjustment.

Follow HCS restoration at http://68hcs.weebly.com
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Old 02/09/2014, 11:41 AM   #5
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This is a should be done with two people. Have someone in the car with the brakes all on and chock the wheels. As Marty said the neutral switch may be out of adjustment. It spins on its two bolts in oblong holes to dial it in.

Try this key in off test. As a crude quick elimination, use a screwdriver to connect the batter side of the starter solenoid to the little post closest to that same battery side large post. Kinda dig the tip of a small, but somewhat long common screwdriver into the wires and such and then tip it over to the nut at the base of the little post. This will but 12 volts to the little post. If the starter and solenoid are working properly it will immediately make the starter move. Release immediately, or it will start the engine. Even if it does try to start, with the key off, as soon as you let go it will kill the power to the engine.

I do this all the time with a car with a properly adjusted shifter, to bounce it to top dead center for tuning. The whole thing is to not start a car with the car in gear.

The other way it to check is get you volt meter out and check between the two battery posts to ensure you measure 12 volts. Then take the wire off the same little post I describe above. Have your lovely assistant get in the car. Use the negative post as a ground and connect the little wire. Have you assistant turn the key past the run position into the "start" position and hold it. If the neutral lockout switch and the ignition switch are working properly you should see 12 volts on this wire. This is the starter trigger wire so to speak. If you see none then I would start with the neutral lockout switch. have your assistant rock the key in and out of the start position. 12 volts should come and go.

do one of the other of these tests and then post again. There are simple tests for your lockout switch.

Rob
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Old 02/09/2014, 11:48 AM   #6
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Excellent description, when my lovely assistant puts the kids down for nap, I'll give it a shot!...

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/09/2014, 12:30 PM   #7
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I have one of these in my tool box because my lovely assistant hates to be taken away from the Hallmark Channel.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...124_0006402985

Steve

The wannabe formerly known as an owner.
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Old 02/09/2014, 12:38 PM   #8
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Here's a way to bypass the neutral switch.
http://www.californiaspecial.com/for...ead.php?t=7497
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Old 02/09/2014, 01:29 PM   #9
robert campbell
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If you find it to be an out of adjustment neutral switch..... Put car on 4 jack stands. Better yet have lovely assistant do that while you drink a beer. Ensure you have adequate beer supply. For some that is a six pack! for others, a bit more is needed.......

1. Loosen shifter end of the rod nut to allow movement on shifter arm. This can be tight and WD-40 is a good lube. And it works best if it sets a bit. Gives you and excuse to drink a beer
2. Move shifter on side of tranny back and forth and imagine you are shifting the car. beer helps you imagine
3. All the way back is park
4. All the way forward is low (practice, and sometimes the parking pawl in the auto will hang up if read tires are not off the ground and e-brake off). If this happens have lovely assistant rock the rear wheel gentle. It should then allow you to go fully into park. Make "Bullit" car noises as you go through the gears. More beer.....
5. Once you do this, find neutral on the automatic.
6. Have lovely assistant put shifter in neutral
7. dive back under car once again..... Or buy a lift...... give shift rod a temporary tightening.
8. Get back out from under the 8$%^% car. Try shifter. see if park pawl locks the rear driveshaft. Non- posi car will still let a rear tire turn, but look at driveshaft, or dive back UNDER %@3^#6 car and put screw driver in front u-joint and see if drive shaft is locked.....
9. Get back out and drink more beer.
10. Now loosen two small bolts that hold neutral switch....
11. Put car in reverse with key on and have lovely assistant stand behind car. Slowly rotate neutral switch until back up lights come on. Assuming back up light work and are installed..... move back out from under car. Remain sitting to drink beer. knees are sore or with me continuous getting up and down makes me dizzy..... Switch should be close!!!
12. If reverse trick is successful. Have lovely assistant get in car. Remember you are tired.... Put car in neutral and try key in start position. Get ready to bail if lovely assistant starts car, or remove coil wire if you have a large life insurance policy and lovely assistant has been feeding you French fries prepared in lard..... Might want to look into that. More beer, with a shot of Scotch! If neutral does not work give park a try.
13. Little switch is very finicky and small movements go a long way. If you still have reverse lights in reverse (hmmmm, better double check assistants eye-sight, my wife is very near sided and thinks I am George Clooney). Move switch until you get it to engage starter only in park and neutral. ragggaa fratzeen freaking words are usually spewed sometime in this process. Darn it reverse lights are gone!!! reverse lights in park??? what the heck.... don't scare lovely assistant out of garage or teach kids new words!!!
14. If you get it to work, celebrate with more beer and Scotch!!! Do a happy dance and see if lovely assistant is as turned on as you are!!! or not..... Ensure you tighten shift rod and little bolts!
15. If this does not work leave garage immediately!! Sometimes pity sex is very good also!!!! Try to not exceed nap time for kids!!! That can be a real buzz kill for bedroom activities!!!

Tomorrow we will remove the switch and do bench testing if the above does not work. Much better as you are sitting and beer is easy to drink. Don't forget to buy more beer! And celebratory sex after pity sex???? Ya babbeee!

Rob
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Old 02/09/2014, 01:54 PM   #10
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1) OK, screwdriver test: Success...car turns

2) Test two: 0 volts.

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/09/2014, 02:05 PM   #11
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WOW! I love beer, but the kids didn't nap so I was solo for most of the testing...tough to do any work with a 3 yr old and newborn. "Dad does need garage time to stay sane", I tell my wife, but that only flies like 1 out of 10 times.

ANYWAY, non posi rear so I need to put this beast back on blocks (took off blocks yesterday to try to "start" it). My tail section is completely removed but I could hook up a reverse light just to check...if I find them.

I'll try the bypass today then the beer drinking solution when I get the kids to bed early (maybe today or next month).

You are all awesome.

And I love the NAPA remote starter tool idea. It's like shocking the car back to life.

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/09/2014, 02:35 PM   #12
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Just tried (by myself) testing the starter selenoid by test two (negative ground on battery to post) again and got 0 volts.

I then bypassed the neutral switch as per attached picture and still nothing.

In the attached picture you'll see two red wires. One is from the electronic choke and is on the bottom of the trans wires to neutral switch (should make a difference unless the car actually started). The other is positive from the coil to the 3 wires from the firewall adjacent to the trans/neutral harness. What are these wires for? Especially the two missing!
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Old 02/09/2014, 03:20 PM   #13
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temp sending unit and oil pressure sending unit....... Turn key on and find a terminal out of the 4 terminal plug that has 12 volts. Firewall side of the plug of course. One is for the backup lights and the other for the neutral/park safety switch. If the one you are jumping has no voltage then we are heading to the ignition switch. There should be only one terminal in that block that has voltage in the key "on" position. this one powers the backup lights and the switch is just a connection. The other triggers the wire on the on the started solenoid and has power only in the engine "start" position.

We may be heading towards the ignition switch..... more beer to work under dash.....

Rob
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Old 02/16/2014, 06:11 AM   #14
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UPDATE:

I have checked continuity between the "S" selenoid and the starter (red/blue wire #32) and even traced everything under the dash to the ignition switch and all good. Bypassed the neutral safety switch and I still can't get power to the "S" from the ignition. I just ordered a Scott Drake replacement switch and I'll check that later in the week. I hope that is it.

68 Acupulco Blue GT/CS in 10,000 pieces and parts...I hope to drive it again one day...
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Old 02/16/2014, 11:28 AM   #15
robert campbell
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Do you have power at the coil in the run position? With the front bucket out for a fat guy like me, squirm under and find the wire that heads to the solenoid and see if it has power while lovely assistant turns the key. May need to put a small "nick" in wire.

Or better yet remove switch and check for continuity between main power lug on the switch and the start post on the switch with key in start position. That is a decent check, but does not put the 12 volt load on the wire. You can put 12 volts on the main power in and then turn key to see if you get 12 volts on the start lug for the true test.

Do you have the gauge cluster for the dash in?
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