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Old 11/06/2013, 09:36 PM   #1
dalorzo_f
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MCA Judging Sheets

Curious what they currently contain. Anyone got a recent one they can scan and send, or post here?
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Old 11/06/2013, 10:04 PM   #2
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I think I tracked them down once online... I will have a look tonight and see if I can find the link
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Old 11/06/2013, 10:20 PM   #3
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Tari and I have all of the MCA judge sheets but we are not allowed to give them out.
If you are a MCA member you can go to the MCA web site and pull up judging rules. You will find that they are all most a mirror image of what you will currentlyfind on a judge sheet. Marty

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Old 11/06/2013, 11:07 PM   #4
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Hmm... so no one can post a result sheet from a past event? Or do you not get to keep the sheets after?

Was hoping to compare them to local, as to pay to join the US MCA to get a couple pieces of paper is just not worth it...

And how do judges check things that are not on the rules? Can I have a '65 top frame on a '68 and still be "correct"... the rules are very vague in many areas.
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Old 11/07/2013, 06:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalorzo_f View Post
Hmm... so no one can post a result sheet from a past event? Or do you not get to keep the sheets after?

Was hoping to compare them to local, as to pay to join the US MCA to get a couple pieces of paper is just not worth it...

And how do judges check things that are not on the rules? Can I have a '65 top frame on a '68 and still be "correct"... the rules are very vague in many areas.
If some one wishes to post theirs that would be up to them.

Their are a number of benefits to club membership such as the clubs class rules, online judges testing, club web site, the Mustang Times magazine and member discounts with various vendors.
I realize that for those that are over seas the benefits are limited. At the last board of directors meeting the possibility of a discounted membership for those that would opt for a digital magazine was discussed. This would be better for our over seas members.
When I have a question I confer with some of the senior gold card judges. There is a large pool of collective knowledge there. We looking at possible expansion of the rules but you can emiegion what a daunting task that is for nearly 50 years of production.

If I were judging a car and discovered a incorrect part and was certain I was correct I would deduct for it accordingly even though it may not have been spelled out in the rules.
The MCA is not perfect in many ways but still the best game in town.
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Old 11/08/2013, 06:18 AM   #6
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So Marty.

I have to ask why is so much "known" knowledge taught to Judges by rote (I guess) not documented for the members to use?

The excuse its too hard to write down is a bit suspect, as that implies memorization from verbal sources is better. I would tend to disagree. No one would have written a dictionary if that was the case.

I am curious how undocumented areas, such as my interest topic convertible tops, are handled. Absolutely nothing is in the Judging Guidelines (I have seen). As an example, how do judges ensure a common standard is applied to the numerous differences in 65-68 tops? Rely on everyone memorizing the same hidden list, or word-of-mouth? Are details like this ignored or picked up, depending on if the judge is "certain" about it? Not looked at unless the judge decide to check it on a whim?

I do respect the effort Judges put in, but the methodologies and documentation that the MCA uses is none too impressive, pretty 60's methodology... IMHO memorized lists no one can produce are really not too high a standard of proof.
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Old 11/08/2013, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalorzo_f View Post
So Marty.

I have to ask why is so much "known" knowledge taught to Judges by rote (I guess) not documented for the members to use?
So you are saying you want free member information?

I am not a member of the MCA, and have no plans to join in the near future. However, I understand 'proprietary exchange of information'.

I do car archaeology for a living. I do my own research on the internet, study vintage literature and manuals, face to face conversations at car shows, photo documentation, searching and reading the various forums, etc.


Richard, if you specifically want to find out about convertible top differences, I would first go the places that have Mustang convertible information. Forums such as The Vintage Mustang Forum or Concours Mustang Forum. Use the search function for 'convertible frame', 'convertible top', things like that. Find those existing threads that pertain to you, and ask your specific questions. Ideally you should ask those related questions 'within the existing threads'.

Scott Behncke
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West Coast Classic Cougar A good source for Mustang mechanical parts too.
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Old 11/08/2013, 04:55 PM   #8
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You misread my post. I said the members do not even get access to the
details the judges use. Only the basic guildelines unless judged, then they get thier sheet... Maybe this is incorrect, but what I have been told by numerous MCA members.

Proprietary Info (or intellectual property) is usually associated with for-profit businesses, I thought the MCA fronted itself as a non-profit, but may be wrong. They can keep it locked up, it is their choice. My point was by maintaining it as IP, and not even giving real detail to members, kinda shows no real interest in making a known standard available for use to truly support a common base for the hobby to work to. Which I would hope was their goal. One could guess they see spreading knowledge as a threat to their niche.

I recently did a comparison of the 2004 and 2013 rules for 67-68. 9 years on and the only changes are a few words on some power steering, AC and exhaust basics. And a deduction for an Autolite battery cover. Not really moving forward much for the paying member.

On tops, you again missed my point. I have more info on that topic for 65-68 than anyone. Guaranteed. My point was the MCA does not say one word about the dozens of changes year-to-year (65-68, my area of knowledge) that are known. So how do they judge thie, and other siimailr undocuemtned items?

I, as you, do my own research and enjoy it. It just drive me insane when a MCA Judge say "no, you are wrong because I say so..." and has nothing to back it up other than opinon. Especially when they are completely wrong... which I have seen or experienced on numerous occasions.

As noted, I do appreciate the attempt by the club, but find it pretty lacking in defining a clear standard of restoration for members. A view I know many share, and many disagree with.
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Old 11/08/2013, 07:07 PM   #9
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Richard I would very much like to see your convertible top information, would you post it? I have been working on a test of expanding 67-68 rules and would like to include your information if it is new information.

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Old 11/09/2013, 03:03 PM   #10
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PM sent...
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