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Old 06/15/2018, 10:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosesatm View Post
It could even be something as simple as a plugged fuel filter.
good point. I will replace the fuel filter. Also will check all wires and connections. (sand and grease them all too)

I've received the pigtail. How do I wire the pink wire?
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Old 06/15/2018, 11:51 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Batgirl89 View Post
good point. I will replace the fuel filter. Also will check all wires and connections. (sand and grease them all too)

I've received the pigtail. How do I wire the pink wire?

In my opinion...
... there are two ways to proceed at this point given that you already have the Pertronix power relay.

(1) You could hook up the new pigtail connector to the existing wires, including the pink resistor wire, using crimp ("butt") connectors and use the relay per Pertronix instructions with the resistor wire now controlling the relay. The downside of this is that the relay is one more thing that can fail, plus you have to find spot for it, etc. The upside is that there is significantly less current flowing through the ignition switch (~0.2amp vs ~8amp if my calculations are correct which means less chance of frying wires, etc) and you don't have to hack the exiting wires, just connect the pigtail connector. This is what I have done on my car (but with a conventional Bosch relay). Note: If you go this route, I would check the pink/resistor wire from the connector all the way out to where it would hook to the coil with a multimeter just for connectivity. You should get ~1.5ohms. Note2: I'm also a bit worried about your report of the "relay's purple wire heating up".

(2) You could completely replace the pink resistor wire with a 12 gauge wire (maybe a smaller 14G wire??) and run this all the way out to the Pertronix coil and ignitorII (you can just leave the pink connector wire disconnected). Again, using crimp connectors to hook up the pigtail connector. With this method you don't need the relay but you should be able use it if you wish for the reduced current benefits (I looked at the Pertronix instructions... if you use their relay with this scenario, check if the resistor in the control wire is *needed* or not. With a conventional relay it is not required, you can use either a resistor wire or a regular wire with no difference.)

Side note: I agree with Neil that using crimp connectors to hook up the pigtail or splice is ok (soldering would be better but I think would be very hard to do under the dash). I would use insulated crimp connectors with heat-shrink tubing over them. If you are unfamiliar with insulated crimp connectors, heat-shrink tubing, or how to do wire crimping, just ask.

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Old 06/15/2018, 11:52 AM   #48
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If you install the 'jumper' wire as in my previous post, you won't need the Pink wire at all. Just cap it & stow it.

Neil
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Old 06/15/2018, 12:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by franklinair View Post
If you install the 'jumper' wire as in my previous post, you won't need the Pink wire at all. Just cap it & stow it.

Neil
Neil, did you read my message about that wire being "hot" when the key is in the "accessory" position? If I am wrong about this please let me know how/why I am incorrect, I would like to learn. I have checked that wire with a multi-meter.

Thanks
James

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Old 06/15/2018, 06:06 PM   #50
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Jim; Yes the wire would be Hot when the Ignition Switch is in the ACC position. I don't concern myself with that for a couple reasons:
1.) That function is not used all that often, and then usually for a short time only.
2.) You seem to be concerned about the current draw through the Coil, and running the Battery down. A typical automotive coil resistance is 6,000 to 10,000 ohms. For a median value lets use 8,000 ohms. Current draw is calculated I=E/R. So 12V/8,000= .0015Amps
Also consider that when in the ACC position (engine not running) the Ignition system is dormant- no spark demand, Distributor not turning, Field windings of the Coil are not being induced to produce any voltage.
When I finish rewiring my '68 convertible (Pertronx Ign & Jumper wire) I'll take voltage & current readings with photos to illustrate.

Neil
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Old 06/15/2018, 07:43 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinair View Post
Jim; Yes the wire would be Hot when the Ignition Switch is in the ACC position. I don't concern myself with that for a couple reasons:
1.) That function is not used all that often, and then usually for a short time only.
2.) You seem to be concerned about the current draw through the Coil, and running the Battery down. A typical automotive coil resistance is 6,000 to 10,000 ohms. For a median value lets use 8,000 ohms. Current draw is calculated I=E/R. So 12V/8,000= .0015Amps
Also consider that when in the ACC position (engine not running) the Ignition system is dormant- no spark demand, Distributor not turning, Field windings of the Coil are not being induced to produce any voltage.
When I finish rewiring my '68 convertible (Pertronx Ign & Jumper wire) I'll take voltage & current readings with photos to illustrate.

Neil
Neil

Thanks for the response and the info.

The concern I have is that the power being provided from the ignition switch is going to the primary coil and, if I did the measurement correctly, that resistance is ~1.8ohms, from the + to the - terminal. (On the other hand, the secondary coil from the output going to the distributor to the - terminal is 11000 ohms but that is not the critical circuit here). That would indicate a current being provided by the ignition switch is more on the order of 12/1.8~=10amp draw. The other concern I have is that for the ignitor1 Pertronix specifically indicates that the key should not be left in the "run" position (that is, the ignitor1 should not powered up) if the engine is not running as it will damage the ignitor1. So if someone with an ignitor1 turned on the "accessory" to listen to the radio they run the risk of burning out their ignitor1. For people with ignitor2 and ignitor3 this would not be a problem however, as apparently this issue was fixed.

Thanks again
James

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Old 06/15/2018, 08:43 PM   #52
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The Pertronix 2/3 probably were improved with a better blocking diode internally. I have used Pertronix 1 & 2 over the years (20+/-) and NEVER had a problem with either, never burned up a Coil, and never run the battery down.
The Pertronix 1 caution does not seem logical: Leaving the Ignition Switch in the Run position with the engine not running? Who does that, and why? (Other than short term for some sort of trouble shooting.) Even a Points & Condensor system could suffer a failure of the Condensor if left on continuously/unnecessarily. What are the odds of that happening?
I think you're concerned over a non issue. But to alleviate your concern, I will mock up a demo when I have my convertible wiring completed.

Neil
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Old 06/16/2018, 12:17 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinair View Post
The Pertronix 2/3 probably were improved with a better blocking diode internally. I have used Pertronix 1 & 2 over the years (20+/-) and NEVER had a problem with either, never burned up a Coil, and never run the battery down.
The Pertronix 1 caution does not seem logical: Leaving the Ignition Switch in the Run position with the engine not running? Who does that, and why? (Other than short term for some sort of trouble shooting.) Even a Points & Condensor system could suffer a failure of the Condensor if left on continuously/unnecessarily. What are the odds of that happening?
I think you're concerned over a non issue. But to alleviate your concern, I will mock up a demo when I have my convertible wiring completed.

Neil
Re: "The Pertronix 1 caution does not seem logical: Leaving the Ignition Switch in the Run position with the engine not running? Who does that, and why?"

Neil

Sorry, I think I was unclear on that point. Here is what Pertronix says regarding the ignitor1:

"Q: What will happen if I leave the ignition switch on when the engine is not running?
A: Leaving the ignition switch on when the engine is not running, can cause permanent damage to the ignition system, and related components. This does not apply to the accessory position of the ignition switch."

http://www.pertronix.com/support/tips/#a3

Since with the proposed "jumper fix" this would effectively power the ignitor1 in the "accessory" mode in the same fashion as would be seen in the "run" mode without the engine running, I was concerned that this fix would therefore potentially damage the ignitor1 anytime someone had the switch in the "accessory" mode for an extended period of time. This is much more likely than accidentally leaving the key in the "run" mode. That was what I was concerned about. I believe (but am not sure) that this "problem" was solved on the ignitor2 and 3.

Regarding a mock up, please do not feel you need to do this for me. I have already solved this issue with a relay. I am just trying to ensure that Sheryl (and anyone else trying to solve a similar problem in the future) is fully aware of all the pros and cons of the different proposed solutions. IMO, in the end it is their decision to make.

Thanks again.
James

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Old 06/21/2018, 07:03 PM   #54
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Batgirl, any progress on fixing your problem?

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Old 07/26/2018, 11:49 AM   #55
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I finally got out there yesterday morning before it got too hot. I took the driver seat out, tired of working with the seat in the way. The ground wire on the old pigtail fell out of the back into my hand (very bad connection! possibly causing all the problems?)

As suggested, I used a terminal tool to get the pink wire out of the old pigtail, and put it in the new pigtail with a little epoxy, I hope it stays in. Installed new pigtail, new ignition switch, and new cougar headlight switch. Car started right up!!!!! Happy dance

Then last night, once it cooled off from 100, With fingers crossed, I drove it downtown for fuel and stopped at the firehouse to surprise John. The firemen washed it for me!

Ignition wires did not get hot. (I did not turn the AC on yet, was just enjoying having the car running again) but I need to test it with AC on and make sure the wires don't heat up.

Car needs to be tuned. John can do a Holley, but this is an Edelbrock

After the fire guys washed it, all my turn signal lights stopped working. WTH???
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Old 07/26/2018, 06:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batgirl89 View Post

Car needs to be tuned. John can do a Holley, but this is an Edelbrock
Edelbrock's are easy-peasy to tune.

Here's the manual:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...ers-manual.pdf

And a bunch of "How to" videos on Youtube... like these...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcavX5cTDbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR_AfQjyT-A

You might also consider investing in one of the tuning kits as well. Eg for a 1406 carb...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1487

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Old 07/26/2018, 10:38 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p51 View Post
Edelbrock's are easy-peasy to tune.

Here's the manual:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...ers-manual.pdf

And a bunch of "How to" videos on Youtube... like these...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcavX5cTDbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR_AfQjyT-A

You might also consider investing in one of the tuning kits as well. Eg for a 1406 carb...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1487
James, Thank you for all your help on this car! I really do appreciate it. Sheryl
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Old 10/12/2018, 11:48 PM   #58
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when I turn on the AC the Yellow, Black/green stripe and purple wires in the (newly replaced) Ignition switch are heating up.

is this normal? they felt warm so I turned off the AC ( and suffered with the heat) not having fun anymore

The blower fan makes noise also

Last edited by Batgirl89; 10/13/2018 at 12:15 AM.. Reason: add fan info
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Old 10/13/2018, 02:30 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batgirl89 View Post
when I turn on the AC the Yellow, Black/green stripe and purple wires in the (newly replaced) Ignition switch are heating up.

is this normal? they felt warm so I turned off the AC ( and suffered with the heat) not having fun anymore

The blower fan makes noise also
Sheryl

(some of the below is just review and/or obvious)

Yellow is 12v battery voltage. The black-green wire (#297 in schematics) provides battery voltage to various accessories when the ignition switch is in the "run" and "accessory" position. For the life of me I cannot figure out exactly what the purple wire does (it only seems to be used during "start" to "prove out" some of the idiot lights, etc)... so I will ignore it.

If the yellow and black-green wire heat up excessively (eg burns your finger) only when you have the AC on it is likely that something in the "AC system" is shorting to ground drawing excessive current through the yellow and black-green wires. It could be the blower, compressor, etc or even the wiring.

One thing to try is to isolate the problem further. First (as a baseline), turn the key to the "accessory" position without anything running. If the black-green wire gets hot then it might be bad insulation causing a short to ground somewhere in that wire. If the wire stays cool then leave the key in the "accessory" position and turn on just the blower without engaging the AC. Check to see if the wires now get hot. If so, then there is something in the blower (eg the motor) causing the problem. If not, it is something in the rest of the AC system. This would require tracing the black-green (#297) wire in the schematics to see what it controls.

The purple wire may only be getting hot because of proximity to the yellow wire or the ignition switch might? be bad (but I believe you just replaced that, so I doubt that could be the problem).

A short in the "AC system" may have been what previously caused the wiring insulation to crack.

James

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Old 10/13/2018, 09:36 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p51 View Post
Sheryl

(some of the below is just review and/or obvious)

Yellow is 12v battery voltage. The black-green wire (#297 in schematics) provides battery voltage to various accessories when the ignition switch is in the "run" and "accessory" position. For the life of me I cannot figure out exactly what the purple wire does (it only seems to be used during "start" to "prove out" some of the idiot lights, etc)... so I will ignore it.

If the yellow and black-green wire heat up excessively (eg burns your finger) only when you have the AC on it is likely that something in the "AC system" is shorting to ground drawing excessive current through the yellow and black-green wires. It could be the blower, compressor, etc or even the wiring.

One thing to try is to isolate the problem further. First (as a baseline), turn the key to the "accessory" position without anything running. If the black-green wire gets hot then it might be bad insulation causing a short to ground somewhere in that wire. If the wire stays cool then leave the key in the "accessory" position and turn on just the blower without engaging the AC. Check to see if the wires now get hot. If so, then there is something in the blower (eg the motor) causing the problem. If not, it is something in the rest of the AC system. This would require tracing the black-green (#297) wire in the schematics to see what it controls.

The purple wire may only be getting hot because of proximity to the yellow wire or the ignition switch might? be bad (but I believe you just replaced that, so I doubt that could be the problem).

A short in the "AC system" may have been what previously caused the wiring insulation to crack.

James
James, Thank you! I didn't even think of running the fan w/o the AC on. Ill do that next. The fan is making a lot of noise at times, moaning/grinding. I have my shop manual out this am looking at the schematics also!

These car problems consume my mind, its all I think about! Internet searches, crawling all over the car looking at wires, cleaning connects and grounds. Its a good diversion sometimes

Enjoy the weekend, Sheryl
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