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1968 Starting Problem GT/CS

GT_CS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
74
Location
Slough, England, UK
hi every1,

My uncle has been having starting problems with his GT/CS. It has been stood for a number of months and when we tried starting the car, a 'click' sound is heard and the starter does not turn the engine! We presumed the starter was faulty and had it rebuilt and the car was fine for a very short while and now we have the same problems again

The symptoms: Upon the 'click' sound the wire from the solenoid to the starter gets extremely hot and often see a wave of smoke coming from solenoid area. However if you give the battery some extra support by attaching another battery for extra power, the car after 15 mins manages to start up.

Any ideas as to what could be the problem??

Many Thanks Guys/Gals
Fasar
 

CougarCJ

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
2,186
Bad wire or bad wire connection, dirty battery posts, loose clamp. Battery and starter leads do go bad over time, they build up resistance due to oxidation in the wire strands.
 

68CaliSp

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
151
Location
Moore, OK
Make sure the solenoid is attached/grounded properly. I had similar problems with my car awhile ago and had to replace the solenoid even after fixing the grounding problem.

Cameron
 

robert campbell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
I have had solenoids that shorted to ground. Try taking the two screws out, and suspend the solenoid with a large air gap between it and the inner panel. If it works not bolted down, then replace it!

Rob
 
OP
OP
G

GT_CS

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
74
Location
Slough, England, UK
I have had solenoids that shorted to ground. Try taking the two screws out, and suspend the solenoid with a large air gap between it and the inner panel. If it works not bolted down, then replace it!

Rob


Hi Rob & CJ And Cameron,

thanks for your ideas guys much appreciated, i will check with my uncle what he has tried if any of the above, however Rob i know he has replaced the solenoid to no avail, nevertheless it would be worthwhile to try your experiment
 

rvrtrash

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
I think your starter is bad again. I would do several things. First, pull the starter and have it checked by a reputable shop. Second, if you saw smoke around the solenoid and the starter cable was getting hot, replace both. When the smoke escapes, it's a bad thing, and copper contacts tend to pit at high temperatures. I would also replace the negative cable to the block, and the battery cable to the solenoid. If the starter is a dead short, the same amount of current was going through the other cables. If you're trying to save money, at least inspect the cables very carefully for signs of discoloration, bubbling in the insulation or damage at the connections. Bite the bullet and replace the solenoid regardless. Finally, have the battery checked, just to make sure you don't have a dead cell.

Steve
 

68 special

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
524
I just got the engine and trans back in the car and everything is hooked up. I've double checked everything I can think of and it won't start. I've tested the coil, plug wires, plugs for spark, reset the timing, clocked the distributor several times. Rotor pointed at #1 on compression stroke, timing pointer on about 6 deg. got fuel. checked and rechecked all the grounds. cranks fine but no start. Any suggestions?
Too early for alcohol, darn it.

Bret
 

68 special

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
524
I have spark from the coil thru the wire to the dist. and to the plugs. Is there a way to test the coil itself, I tried a multi meter, but not sure I was hooking it up right. I'm thinking it has to be gas. It has been sitting since around Dec in the garage. There is less than an 1/8 tank of gas, so I think I'll drain it and the carb and start over. I seems like it would try and start tho even with bad gas or gas/water mix.

Bret
 

rvrtrash

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
Pull a plug out of the head, reattach the wire and hold the threads to a bare spot on the engine with insulated pliers (that will ground the plug). If you can see a spark when you crank it, you're probably good enough to start the car. Don't try using a voltmeter on the high voltage side of the coil without a high voltage probe. There is way more voltage there than the meter can handle. I would double check the gap on the points and leave your vacumn advance unhooked. If you can move the throttle linkage and see it spray gas into the venturi's you have gas. A few other things that it might be are: 1)Wrong timing order, especially if you installed a new cam. A lot of builders use the new firing order that's the same as the 351W. 2) Distributor in at 180 deg. off. If I think of something else, I'll post again later. By the way, what solved the problem of it not even turning over?

Steve

PS. If it's still not running in a month, put it on a trailer and bring it to Rob's. We need something to play with.
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Brett,
Just slinging thoughts.

How did you determin compression stroke?

Rebuilt engine? Did you adjust the valves yourself or are they even self adjusting?

One of my favorites! The plug for the automatic tranny. Is it plugged in? The tranny must think it is in park. But if you got spark it must be working.

Bad gas and/or water in gas. If the garage is cold it can condensate. Jack car up so your tank drain is definitely the low point. Get rid of it and thoroughly drain the carb. Leave carb upside down for an hour. Pull sight plugs and gently blow in air to dry it out if it is a Holley.

Rob
 

68 special

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Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
524
First off, thanks for the input,

Steve it is a 351w. I checked and double checked the firing order. I pulled the #1 plug and cranked it over wearing what I thought were good enough gloves, wrong, zapped my ass. So, pretty sure it's getting spark. Probably should check all the plugs for fire, but I've had it for today, been out there on and off since 7:30 this am.

Rob, same engine,nothing different accept paint, trans is plugged in.

It's probably something really minor.
Funny thing, this started because I had to swap out the trans and thought I just as well pull the engine and clean it up, paint a couple things and put it back together. Sounds simple enough. Thought since it won't fire I might as well put the driveline back in with the new yoke, should only take 1/2 hour or so, gave up on that for tonight also as the damn thing won't go into the tailshaft.


IT IS DEFINITELY BEER THIRTY.
This site shows 2:00am but it is actually 7pm



Bret
 

rvrtrash

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Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
When you say it's got fuel, do you mean in the tank or in the carb? Since you have spark (sorry you got lit up) and you're confident in the distributor placement and firing order, I would look at fuel next. Could you have a bad fuel pump or plugged filter? Have you tried putting a small, and I mean small, amount of gas in the carb throat and turning it over? Are all your vacumn lines and PCV hose hooked up?

Steve
 

68 special

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
524
Yup, got fuel to carb. Even so, I took the carb off and cleaned it up (took the top off and cleaned the float bowl), put it back together and back on the car, poured a small amout of fuel down it's throat and still nothing.
I haven't put the pvc hose on yet. Looking for a molded one. It only had 1 vacuum hose hooked up from the dist. to the front top of the carb. 1 in the back was capped and 1 under the automatic choke housing that is open, should this one be capped or connected to vacuum at back of the manifold? Since my engine is a '69, I only have a '68 manual, so I've been going off of that for vacuum diagrams.

Shouldn't the yoke just slip over the tail shaft? The fmx did, but this c4 only goes about an inch, then stops. Tried tapping it in and it went about 2" and needed another inch. Just didn't feel right , so tapped it back out.

Keep the ideas coming, may not get to it tomorrow, gonna go drool at car shows in Issaquah and work my way back to Monroe.

Thanks Bret
 

rvrtrash

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Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
The vac. port under the choke housing should be for the manifold heater loop. Cap it. The yoke on a C-4 might be different diameter than an FMX. As for starting, if everything is correct as you say, the only thing I can think of is a jumped timing chain. You'll need to pull the valve cover for the #1 cyl and see if both valves are closed when the balancer is at TDC and dist is pointed to the #1 position. Rotate the crank back and forth to make sure the valves start to open at the same point on either side of "0". This isn't the most accurate way to check, but a lot easier than pulling the timing cover. Hopefull someone else has a flash of insight and you don't have to do this at all.

Steve
 

68 special

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Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
524
After reading and rereading all the different manuals I have , I discover that the rotor should point at the #1 on cap, not the #1 on the block. That's way i"m reading it.

So, TDC, #1 piston on compression, rotor at #1 at the cap. Ready, set, go, rats no go, battery to weak. I'll try and jump it later.

Washington's liquid sunshine is upon us again.

Bret
 

CougarCJ

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
2,186
Correction, rotor should point to #1 plug wire in the cap.
Don't trust the #1 hole in the cap to be hosting the #1 spark plug wire.:grin: Raising hand, my car is off a hole or two.
Timing should also be at TDC or there abouts.

Just so we are all on the same page. #1 is always on the passenger side front for a Ford. That and the way the cylinders are numbered is Ford specific also. Distributor rotation is counter clockwise. Messed that one up a couple of times.:tongue:
Check? Check? & Check?
 
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