Found out another cool fact about one of the 428 CS's

GTCSMustang said:

I think I put some pictures in a different post a while ago. I could put some in the gallery (when I figure out how to) of the CS. Not sure anyone would care about the others.

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GTCSMustang, Just make sure when you click to go to the gallery, click on the above bar ^ where it says "gallery". The column in red on the left side of this page says "gallery" there too. Don`t go to that one. Thats the old gallery from what I can tell.

I think I've been scolded. Guess I'll put myself in time-out.

GTCSMustang said:

I think I've been scolded. Guess I'll put myself in time-out.

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You said nothing out of line Scott. And as for the rest, I see no harm in asking if a guy would consider selling his car. No matter how rare it is. We all expected Jason to ask him if its for sale. Because thats just the way he is. He does it all the time. He`s one of the people here that add real character to this site. Anyway, who would`nt be proud to own that car!

With John, the owner of the 428 GT/CS a part of our site now, I feel we are all in good company. We can learn from him and he can learn from us. Thats what makes this a great site! I feel with his car included with the rest of our cars, it just adds another piece to the puzzle. I know Paul is very happy to be able to add it to his registry and book. The more knowledge we accumulate about these cars the better. I`m not sure his car is worth as much as Paul says but it sure has to be up there! Why are you somewhat comparing it to the Green Hornet Paul? Could it be close to that important?

I'll add my 2 cents on the sell or not sell issue. If you are interested in buying it and you have the cash keep reminding the person that owns it that you are serious and you want it.

I had a guy working for me that had a 65 SS Impala Convertible, he was the original owner and hadn't driven it in about 10 years. It needed some work but it was all there and all original and in very good shape. I would offer him $2,000 every year about once a year and he always told me where he was the original owner he didn't think he'd sell it. After about 4 years of getting the same answer I forgot about it for a few years. One day while playing on ebay looking at custom cars I thought I'll go see if Daryl wants to sell yet. When I asked he told me some neighbor kids had stopped by and offered him $500 and he needed the money so he sold it.

You just never know when someone is going to get sick of working on it or looking at it or is need of some money, we all change and our needs change along with it, so it never hurts if you are serious to make an offer and I think everyone here did it in all seriousness and in good fashion and if they are serious I'd offer again every once in awhile and you just might get lucky, I missed by about 2 months, not that I really wanted an SS Impala but I could have worked it over and had a little fun and turned it over.

Cory

We all expected Jason to ask him if its for sale. Because thats just the way he is. He does it all the time. He`s one of the people here that add real character to this site.

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who me? :icon_ecst

John,

The engine color is Ford Corporate Blue. However, they varied from car to car and plant to plant. I've found the best thing to do is match the paint off of an existing engine part if you have one. The bucket, lid, snorkle, or S-tube work well. The engines were painted heaviest on the top and lightest on the bottom. Things like freeze plugs often didn't get much paint. And the underside of the smog tubes ususally didn't get any paint. If you haven't already painted the engine, you should do it with the smog tubes installed and water pump bypass hose installed. The clamps on the bypass hose got painted with the engine. Attached is a picture of a Cobra Jet engine that was recently completed for a Shelby I own. It shows the painted bypass hose and clamps in one of the pictures. Yours would look very much the same except for the snorkle (your's is shorter) and hood seal (your's is taller) and you orcourse have a flapper assembly. It's best to get a painter to paint the engine, not the engine rebuilder. Do you still have your starter delay? Your engine should also have the VIN in the back of the block or on the back of one of the heads. Not always true though on a 1968.

Scott

I think a few of you have missed the point I was making.

There's nothing wrong with asking anyone if they'd like to sell their car. Go for it. But I feel a line is crossed when the discussion is wrapped within a greeting, and support, etc.; especially to a new person. It makes it sound like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

The respectful thing to do is to send them a private message first, and then go from there. Putting someone on the spot--in particular a new person, I feel (in general), is kinda tacky.

These message boards are meant to help folks and to encourage the enthusiasm for the car we all love--the GT/CS. If someone new comes along, and is looking for help, and support, comraderie, etc., and then mixed in that support, is asked to sell their car, then (I feel) that's a turn off, and it makes for distrust. Most of us bank our thoughts, answers and enthusiasm here on mutual trust. I'm hoping that that sense of trust continues.

Some of us think of our cars like a member of the family. Long term associations with cars can be strong. Others think that it's OK to buy, sell, trade, or haggle for profit within the hobby, and those cars usually have no "real" attachment. They become objects of wealth, or status, which can fuel auto actions to the very high values.

You don't have to agree with my line of thinking, but don't patronize me for speaking my mind. Where I come from is by the (literally) hundreds and hundreds of letters and photos and notes that I've received since 1985 by owners of the GT/CS that all say basically the same thing: "We LOVE our car! We want to restore it; and we get all kinds of attention." It's for those folks that I will always speak out for. I run the registry as a support for those who have a passion for their GT/CS, and want to keep it.

As for the CJ car, I'm not directly connecting it to the Green Hornet, just in that it's a very rare big block GT/CS, and the first CJ made at the Milpitas plant. We thought originally that the GH would sell for $40K. Then over the years, it sold for $100k, then about $200K.....then a printed value of $2.2M. I'm not saying that this car would also do that necessairily, but anything is possible.

Paul N.

p.s. Scott--excellent engine detailing advice!

John,

Welcome to the site!
Best of luck on your car and the work ahead.

It's great to have you here!

Rich

John,

I’m not sure what you are thinking of doing for exhaust since yours no longer has the original, but here are my thoughts for you consideration.

Background:
The exhaust for your car is specific to Cobra Jet cars and was not used on any other 1968 Mustang except for GT500KRs. The entire system for your car uses 2.25-inch pipes for the H-pipe, resonators, and tail-pipes. The muffler and tail pipe construction are also different than other dual-exhaust cars that use the 2-inch pipes. Below describes the differences and similarities of the two systems (Cobra Jet and non-Cobra Jet such as 302 GT, 390 GT, GT350 Shelbys, and GT500 Shelbys).

H-Pipe: Similar for both systems. Cobra Jet pipe is 2.25-inch and non-Cobra Jet is 2-inch.

Resonator Pipes: Similar for both systems. Cobra Jet pipe is 2.25-inch and non-Cobra Jet is 2-inch. Both have double-hump resonators. The 1969 2.25-inch resonators are triple-hump and are not correct for 1968. Arvin was the original subcontractor to Ford for the exhaust systems and made a run of replacement resonator pipes that sometimes show up, but they are triple-hump. Because the pipes tended to rust and the resonators did not, you can sometimes take the resonators from a rusted system and splice them into replacement (repro) pipes and have them turn out pretty good.

Muffler: The 2-inch muffler is a C8ZA-5230-C. It has a FoMoCo in a rectangle stamped into the muffler casing along with the part number and date. The 2.25-inch muffler is an ED-C8ZA-5230-E. . It has a Ford in an oval stamped into the muffler casing along with the part number and date. Both of these mufflers are very hard to find and getting a good date is even harder. You can enlarge the 2-inch muffler to 2.25-inch with some creative welding, but you still have the wrong part number.

Tail Pipes: The 2-inch tail pipes and tips are two separate items. The chrome quad-tips slide onto the 2-inch pipe and is held in place by a clamp. The 2.25-inch tail pipe and quad tip are one welded assembly and have no clamp to hold it together. Two inch pipes and tips are not too hard to find. 2.25-inch is nearly impossible, but you can do a reasonable job of welding it up.

Hangers: All of the hanging hardware for 2-inch and 2.25-inch is the same.

Clamps: Three types of clamps are used. Saddle, band, and horseshoe. The horseshoe clamp is only used on the 2-inch system to hold the tail pipe and tip together. The saddle clamps are used on the h-pipe to resonator pipes (2), resonator pipes to muffler (2), and tail pipes to muffler (2). The band clamps (2) are used to hold the tail pipes to the J-hook hanger. 2-inch systems used 2-inch saddle clamps, but 2.25-inch systems used 2.125-inch and 2.25-inch saddle clamps. The orientation of the clamps is remarkably consistent from car to car on cars built at the Metuchen plant. I can’t comment on San Jose CJs though.

Misc: All the exhaust systems had a tab and notch design for assembling the systems. I believe the systems were assembled on the ground and swung up into the cars as entire assemblies before the rear ends were installed.

I might take some pictures of all of this hardware if people are interested and put it in the restoration section.

Scott (I’m EXHAUSTED)

All I know is, I am flattered and proud whenever anybody asks me if they can buy my car. But I can competely understand that there needs to be a little tact when asking.

GTCSMustang said:

John,

The engine color is Ford Corporate Blue. However, they varied from car to car and plant to plant. I've found the best thing to do is match the paint off of an existing engine part if you have one. The bucket, lid, snorkle, or S-tube work well. The engines were painted heaviest on the top and lightest on the bottom. Things like freeze plugs often didn't get much paint. And the underside of the smog tubes ususally didn't get any paint. If you haven't already painted the engine, you should do it with the smog tubes installed and water pump bypass hose installed. The clamps on the bypass hose got painted with the engine. Attached is a picture of a Cobra Jet engine that was recently completed for a Shelby I own. It shows the painted bypass hose and clamps in one of the pictures. Yours would look very much the same except for the snorkle (your's is shorter) and hood seal (your's is taller) and you orcourse have a flapper assembly. It's best to get a painter to paint the engine, not the engine rebuilder. Do you still have your starter delay? Your engine should also have the VIN in the back of the block or on the back of one of the heads. Not always true though on a 1968.

Scott

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Yes, Ihave the starter delay, and the engine is correct color. John

Paul, I have had hundreds of people wanting to buy my car in the past 15 years and I have never been shy about saying " no thanks ". I am not offended in the least that there are new friends that are interested in my CS. Was the Green Hornets engine painted green? Scott, thanks for the exhaust info. John

John,

You're welcome. I'm having some starter delay gaskets made. The originals haven't weathered very well on many original delays. Let me know if you need one.

Scott

If anyone knows something about original exhausts it is GTCSMustang (Scott). I have talked to him MANY times about them and I think he gets a woodie every time.

If you guys have specific questions about big block 68 Mustangs, Scott is the guy to ask.

CJ said:

John McGilvary; Glad to see another original owner on board and Vietnam vet. There aren't many original owner's here.

CJ

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Not my fault i was born too late , but I am making up for it Now.

John, here is a picture of the Green Hornet's engine.

Welcome to the forum John. It is a great family of CS and HCS lovers. Not too many original R code 428CJ's though - you have a rare one. Scott Adams has an R code, a CS, (he joined us last year) and Bob Teets has one, a HCS, (he is the registrar for the HCS and has been around a long time). Maybe there are a few others out there I don't know about.

As I think about it, somebody should post an engine poll to find out what people on this forum have. I dont think we have done that before? Casey

PNewitt said:

I think a few of you have missed the point I was making.

There's nothing wrong with asking anyone if they'd like to sell their car. Go for it. But I feel a line is crossed when the discussion is wrapped within a greeting, and support, etc.; especially to a new person. It makes it sound like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

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I understand what you're saying Paul and I guess it is understandable to feel that way however I've always taken an offer for my car as a flattering way of saying awesome car, no matter when or how it comes and I'm sure I don't get near as many offers as John but I've certaily got a lot of them over the years. And I've never felt pressured or awkward about saying sorry it's not for sale, I've taken every single one of them as a compliment.

Cory

Ok, I've been away, do we have contact with the 3 cj CS's? Scott, John (welcome!) and???

Wasn't there a story about the 3rd one rusting away in a field in Colorado?