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Historical Prices

BroadwayBlue

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Apr 26, 2005
Messages
2,900
Location
Hudson Valley Area, NY
OK I have no time on my hand so why not take on something else...

I want to come up with an historical record of GT/CS and HCS sales. I'm thinking of something like this...

Historical Prices of GT/CS and HCS Mustangs
Date Sold - 1/1/2008
Year - 1968
Type - GT/CS
Color - Acapulco Blue
GT - No
Engine - 289
Transmission - Auto
Type of Sale - Private
Condition - 2 (Condition is on a scale of 1 to 6 with 1 being top condition and 6 being a parts car)
Selling Price $50,000

If everyone is interested I wouldn't mind doing this.
If you have info you want to submit to me I'll keep it anonymous - just PM me the info. I don't need to know if you sold it or bought it or saw it on eBAy. It would be helpful to get the info on the selling price mainly and some other info like above.

Other suggestions on data to capture would be good too.

I'll look back to some old info I have as well and add it.

If you guys think it's worth it let me know and I'll start a report like this and post it periodically.

Would be interesting to see the trends over time I think.
 
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Perkchiro

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May 1, 2004
Messages
1,112
Location
Nixa, MO
Rich: Great idea! What about having an additional line for "appraised value"?
I don't plan on selling my car anytime soon, if ever. But, my insurance agent has insured my car on an "agreed value" with the request to eventually have an appraisal to make sure it's adequately insured. A current appraisal could be compared with future appraisals that might show upward trends or a flat line in values. Just my thoughts.
 

vintageracer

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Jul 14, 2006
Messages
21
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tennessee
Are you sure you want a "appraised value" since most appraiser's are "paid liars"? Just ask anyone in the real estate business!

I do not see where an appraised value would add anything to the discussion since an appraisal is an opinion, not a market fact that presents patterns of "real" sales and therefore "real" market values based upon condition of the car and geographic location.
 

vintageracer

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Jul 14, 2006
Messages
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Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tennessee
The Camaro guys have the Camaro Research Group which pools all the information into one source. Many of the posters on Camaro.org will post the information (trim tag, vin, location and price) on the site as there are numerous enthusiasts that have databases with this information. It is very easy for them to track cars over the years and also see how particular cars "transform" into something they are not!
 
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BroadwayBlue

BroadwayBlue

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Hudson Valley Area, NY
I've received a number of PMs already so I'm going to pursue this.

I recall Arlie doing something in the past, if you still have it Arlie I'll add it in.

I don't mind adding a column for appraise value but I agree it's a number that could vary greatly and not everyone may have that. I'll add it if someone sends it.

Also - please note that for condition of 1-5 I'm using 1 as the highest (best condition).

Thanks!
 

vman

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Sep 25, 2006
Messages
81
Location
melbourne, victoria, australia.
Sounds great . Are you only doing prices in the U.S or world wide as I have seen 2 c/s's sold here down under in the last few months and will be happy to keep you posted if I see anything. Sales of c/s's are pretty rare though.
 
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BroadwayBlue

BroadwayBlue

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Hudson Valley Area, NY
Sounds great . Are you only doing prices in the U.S or world wide as I have seen 2 c/s's sold here down under in the last few months and will be happy to keep you posted if I see anything. Sales of c/s's are pretty rare though.

I'll take whatever I can get and just mark the dollars appropriately.
 

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,009
Great idea Rich! I'll PM mine to you. Also - I believe Arlie was doing this a couple of years ago w/ tracking all of the Ebay sales. I seem to remember a lengthy list...

Until my life got a little too complicated.

I'll see if I can find my data and send it to Rich.
 

68gt390

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Feb 22, 2004
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2,021
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Are you sure you want a "appraised value" since most appraiser's are "paid liars"? Just ask anyone in the real estate business!

I do not see where an appraised value would add anything to the discussion since an appraisal is an opinion, not a market fact that presents patterns of "real" sales and therefore "real" market values based upon condition of the car and geographic location.


I agree with you totally. My insurance company has my CS insured for an agreed upon price of $60,000.00. Based on that I've never really cared to much about getting it appraised.

Don
 

HappyHour

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Jul 24, 2007
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496
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Bay Area\ SoCal
Was there any specific criteria used for condition with the prior list? Would "5" be a parts car or still mechanically functional?

Robert
 
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BroadwayBlue

BroadwayBlue

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Apr 26, 2005
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Hudson Valley Area, NY
Rich, I found the file and e-mailed it to you.

Got it Arlie, Thanks!

I have about 20 cars already that were sold over the last 3 years.

I have the full set of the Hemmings Mustang Market and Tech Guide so I'll pull some from there too.

Thanks to everyone that submitted info so far.
 

vintageracer

Member
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Jul 14, 2006
Messages
21
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tennessee
Historical Prices of GT/CS and HCS Mustangs
Date Sold - 1/1/2008
Year - 1968
Type - GT/CS
Color - Acapulco Blue
GT - No
Engine - 289
Transmission - Auto
Type of Sale - Private
Condition - 2 (Condition is on a scale of 1 to 6 with 1 being top condition and 6 being a parts car)
Selling Price $50,000

The above was posted in the first post as an example of what could/should be included in the information. I personally think this example totally misses the the important information that should be collected. One of the most important pieces of information in not listed, the VIN number! Second, there is no listing of options on the car and third there is no listing of modifications to the car if any, no listing of the door tag information if it still there and there is no listing for the current location of the car.

The condition scale is Ok however you could have #1 condition car with NOTHING correct or original that could be complete restomod CS/GT with a 4.6 engine, 5 speed TKO and a late model Cobra IRS with a selling price of $100K. My point is not to infer that such a car is not worth $100K but to illustrate the fact that more information is needed to build a succesful data base of these cars as they continue to trade hands in the future.

With the ease of email and the internet today it is VERY EASY to contact a seller as a potential buyer and request the information we desire that is not listed in the "for sale" ad. This information includes the VIN, door tag and other pertainant information. It is also VERY EASY to scope out EBAY and also harvest the same information from an Ebay ad and put this information in a Windows spreadsheet including a picture or two of the car. Yes, this will make many folks and this website become known as the CS/GT police but what the heck, that appears to me to be the reason folks collect and desire this information anyway. After all, this hobby really is "all about the money"!

The one great difference between CS/GT's and other cars like Camaro's is that there is a readily available source of original build information on these cars from Kevin Marti so VIN swapping, VIN engine code changing and other fraudulent types of activity will be limited. About the only real issue would be a rebody situation or restamping of drivetrain components which does not appear to be a huge issue among the Ford enthusiasts.

My interest in making this post is in NO WAY intended to be critical of anyone who is working on this project of collecting CS/GT information. My desire is that we make sure we collect all the information possible and put it in a usable forum that is either public or private in the maintainance of this information. With everyone who has an interest in these cars posting the for sale information on this site through the noting of an Ebay auction, the actual for sale ad or referencing the information on the site, those who desire to collect and maintain this information will at the very least have the opportunity to collect this information. This is what the groups of several other car marques I am involved with have done for years. After several years of information collection it is very interesting to see how these cars trade hands and change condition.

Most of the specific information collected by groups such a the Camaro boys is collected by several individuals who have a burning desire and knowledge base for Camaro's. Their information is not publicly published but is available by request to either confirm on deny previously known owner history or sales history of a particular car/VIN. This is VERY important now as it is legal to sell original and reproduction trim tags describing the options and colors of cars Another big issue is the sale of complete scrap cars where the only thing of value is the cowl section with the VIN number and trim tag. Several of these have sold for up to $15K with original paperwork. The ONLY way to fix these cars was with a rebody. Rest assured that the rebuilder/seller will forget to mention that minor piece of information. With the prices of a matching VIN tag, trim tag and original window sticker/paperwork for a real 69RS Z/28 bringing $5K-$15K with NO CAR, it is very easy to see why there is the "Camaro Police".

To a degree this could be considered a repeat or extension of Paul's work with the registry, just at a much lower level and more readily available to everyone. It will also make Paul's quest to have the best possible information for his registry MUCH EASIER!
 

Midnight Special

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Nov 5, 2005
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Location
Grass Valley, California
vintageracer...Excellent advice and canduer. Perhaps a detailed plan as you've outlined will be vital soon and will certainly require more coordinated administration, but I commend Rich for at least beginning w/ volunteering to track historic prices as not all of us are looking to BJ type auction. The authenticity of most CSs that show up on the block is bantered here regularly...

Personally, I view a BOSS or Shelby as "all about money" and if I had either; I would not drive them. You don't see others commuting in them either. I view the CS as "living history" that is for the moment, still able to go around town in addition to high end shows w/o such risk to investment. That will change, and that's what I'll ultimately prepare for... But for now - driving is doing is enjoying - in front of as broad an audience as possible. I believe the memories I create now will contribute to the value that the next generation will assign to these cars. ....Just like it did me in the late '60s.
 

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BroadwayBlue

BroadwayBlue

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Hudson Valley Area, NY
The above was posted in the first post as an example of what could/should be included in the information. I personally think this example totally misses the the important information that should be collected. One of the most important pieces of information in not listed, the VIN number! Second, there is no listing of options on the car and third there is no listing of modifications to the car if any, no listing of the door tag information if it still there and there is no listing for the current location of the car.
....

To a degree this could be considered a repeat or extension of Paul's work with the registry, just at a much lower level and more readily available to everyone. It will also make Paul's quest to have the best possible information for his registry MUCH EASIER!

I appreciate the comments but I was in no way trying to create an extensive database with that type of information. If that is what everyone is looking for that's something different.

I feel that really overlaps into what Paul is doing with the registry though and is something that should be done in conjunction with his work not in parrallel. Unless everyone (including Paul) disagrees.

This to me was more of a list of what some CS and HCS cars were sold for, or what the asking prices were at that time. I was not trying to capture all of the detailed information.

Often people don't want to provide a VIN number or even acknowledge what the purchase price was for their car. That's their choice.

In addition to VIN, I kicked around info like location, options, etc ... and that would be great info if 1) People would supply that type of info and 2) if people (and it would probably be more than a 1 person job) had the extra time to do that.

Arlie's list included a lot of additional information and he ran into issues with the time to keep it up to date.

I was basically looking to keep track of the type of information that is already here in the forums but you have to go to multiple threads and the eBay info or classified info is often no longer available.

I was in no way trying to make this a very detailed database of information for people to use to research specific cars.

I could do that if people want - but we wouldn't have all the information on all the cars, I can guarantee that but would still consider pursuing it.

I've seen threads in the past about whether or not to make a database of info like this public or not and searchable. We kind of already have that on the site under the "Registry" link on the left.

This was in no way scientific, so far it's a list of 30 or so cars sold or offered for sale over the last 6 years.

If everyone is interested in something that Vintage Racer is looking for. I would consider taking that on but that wasn't my intent at all.
I wouldn't be insulted if someone wanted to take that task on instead. I'd help out where possible in creating the database, etc but I wouldn't have a lot of time to dedicate to that right now.

I came up with the list of items to include off the top of my head as something I would see as being some basic info. When I looked back at my old Hemming Mustang Tech Magazines, those were pretty much the same info they included in their regular feature on Mustangs. They used to call it "Under the Hammer and In the Bible" based on Auctions, sales and Hemmings classifieds"

Again - this was just something to kind of look back on and see where the trends were. Similar to us being able to go back and see NADA numbers last year vs this year.

I'd be happy to pursue that type of database if
A. People are interested in having and using that info and
B. Paul has some input on this as I feel this is gray area and possible overlap with his registry that he is maintaining. (He probably has a lot of the data already with the data capture for his latest book)

So let me know.

And, Paul, drop me an email or PM with your thoughts if you want. This could be something to pursue when the book is done and putting into a database that could be searched, reported on, posted, secured, etc ... (there is the IT guy in my coming out again .. tried to avoid it but it snuck out)
 
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