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Shelby ends his relationship with SAAC

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PNewitt

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...In this case; SAAC did such an outstanding job preserving, promoting, maintaining "Shelby" and in keeping the passion alive, was no doubt a major influence in Shelby's return to supercars. Now comes the new 500hp cars, the appeal and hype, new technology and ideas, followed by (I'm sure) high-$$ advice to Shelby to gather all of his marbles....

Let's just hope there remains as passionate a lobby for the older cars (beyond the Barret-Jackson types) to find a place in Team Shelby to remain beneficial to the entire heritage.

I understand the hype - the new cars are beautiful! But I hope they don't forget where they came from...

I absolutely agree, Tim.

But here is how I see it. It appears that "Team Shelby" was formed out of some sort of "spite" due to this mess between Carroll and the top guys in SAAC. There's something to that relationship that we don't know, and will probably never know about. But--as I see it-- Carroll and his crew should have considered the whole picture as to how doing something like this would put a lot of people on the spot, and offend and disrespect a lot more. IMO, Carroll should have thought of the many, instead of just himself and his company to have taken the actions that he has.

If "Team Shelby" was formed just to satisfy the needs of the late model Shelbys owners, and they had a meeting with the leadership of SAAC to tell them, then we wouldn't be in this mess. I think that a string of petty arguing led to legal action, and everyone is trying to sort it out, and poor Amy, in the middle, is trying to keep a happy face on all of it (since it's her job).

Someone on the SAACForum boards suggested that Carroll and Rick and Ken hold a closed door meeting to hammer these problems out.

Time will sort out just what will happen. Like I said, I won't be part of "Team Shelby" (because IMO, I feel it was born out of pettiness), but (!) I think that anyone else with a GT/CS should look into it, and hey--have a great time, and enjoy everything you can out of it--and SAAC--if you decide to join one or both groups.

I shouldn't admit this, but just to illustrate a point here; many years ago, I had a couple of times when I've wanted to throw up my hands and say "the heck with this crap", when I got too much criticism, etc., but then I got a look at the nice letters, and read your posts, and know how much you LOVE your GT/CS, so, I had to buck up and consider the importance of the group as a whole, and "get over it" when I felt like that. There is so much at stake with my responsibility to all of you, that I can't let the down times affect that. SO...in the same way, I think that Carroll should consider the consequences of his actions to all the owners--new AND old--with this action against SAAC. I suggest that he step up to the plate and deal with this directly, and solve this problem one way or the other. To create this split like this is very, very bad for the hobby.

We'll just see what happens here. Something has to be sorted out soon, because we'll all suffer as a consequence. Just as a reminder, over at "our house", we are doing just fine, and we have alot to look forward to. This is an awesome group of people that we have here, and I am SO grateful to you all!! I'll always remember that.

Paul N.
 
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rvrtrash

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Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
Paul, it sounds like you're assuming that Carrol Shelby didn't try to work things out with SAAC. Maybe he did and they told him to take a flying leap. We'll probably never know, and while it looks like Shelby is the bad guy to many of us, myself included, I'm willing to recognize that there are always two sides to the story and I'm not going to be able to change anything that's happening. I don't belong to SAAC, even though I own two cars that are Shelby connected, and I won't belong to the new club because I'm out in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't be able to participate in anything without driving 1500 miles, so I don't have anything to gain or lose either way. This isn't a criticism, just playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion.

Steve
 

Midnight Special

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.... I don't belong to SAAC, even though I own two cars that are Shelby connected, and I won't belong to the new club because I'm out in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't be able to participate in anything without driving 1500 miles, so I don't have anything to gain or lose either way. ....
Steve

Steve, as a matter of policy, I won't join car clubs 'cuz there always seems to be a handful of individuals who want us to fund their way of doing things while telling us how to behave and what to believe. By not paying money to be a follower, I can have an objective opinion and choose my own venues based on love of my own vehicles and in best interest of keeping value and enthusiasm.

But some say; Oh, but you own blah, blah, therefore you must support.........! But in reality (for me) - the whole town becomes my car club whenever I venture out in a GT/CS or Mach I! The social accolades are incredible as most of you know:)

I'm only voicing (typing) an opinion here because I don't want to see the politics of (even the finest) car clubs screw that up!
 
P

PNewitt

Guest
Well, it's possible that the split got real ugly between Carroll and SAAC, but IMO, I still think it has to do with money, and maybe SAAC wasn't willing to take on the late model Shelbys, and those owners were screaming at Carroll about it. Who knows??

In either case, I still think that Carroll, as the grandfather of all of this, should have taken the high road, and taken the bull by the horns (as a Texan...), no matter how bad it got, and get this fixed. He's always been one to do things kind of unconventional, and anti-corporate since the 60's, so why did he accept this legal-corporate mess?

I can appreciate Tim's thoughts about clubs. Taxation without representation? I understand. Sometimes clubs can be so political, that there is no more fun. I've seen it so many times. I won't put the prerequisite of "membership" on your multiple ownerships. Maybe your only "club" is the Calif. DMV? LOL.....

Paul N.

A side note. I may be away for a week or two. My mother has to have cancer surgery, and I'll need to help her. I mention this, because at 83, she's been taking care of meticulous filing and organizing of the Registry. She, in fact, knows all of your names--more than I do!
 

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
In either case, I still think that Carroll, as the grandfather of all of this, should have taken the high road, and taken the bull by the horns (as a Texan...), no matter how bad it got, and get this fixed. He's always been one to do things kind of unconventional, and anti-corporate since the 60's, so why did he accept this legal-corporate mess?

That may be exactly what he did. He may have decided that enough is enough and took matters into his own hands.

Since we do not know what really happened anything we assume is speculation.

IMHO the out-of-control egos of the 3 main players finally got the better of all of them. Again, that is pure speculation and should be taken as such.
 

robert campbell

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Apr 10, 2007
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The info from Amy and Rick Kopec was very interesting. The comments about Carroll wanting a “site” that wants “instant information” exchange and dialog rings very “dull” in my ears. That is what SAAC, and further, this site offers. What a bunch of baloney! Come on Amy and Carroll!!! Speak the truth. It’s all about the bucks!

Rick gives the capitalistic view of the consumer will choose his option. I liked that! Ok Carroll and Team Shelby. Do a better job than we have! He really threw down the gauntlet. At the same time there is huge baggage somewhere in all of this. I agree with Steve. Did Rick totally blow off Carroll on the new cars and now it is a giant pissing contest between two huge egos? If so, what a shame for these people to raise themselves to total “Shelby God” status and the owner and member suffers.

I need some help in understanding one area of this. Will SAAC lose the ability to call itself SAAC? To use the Shelby and Cobra logo’s?? That is what I read into this take over. Like Ford is attempting to do with the word “Mustang”.

I co-founded the Kitsap Mustang Club in Bremerton Washington in the mid 80’s. This club is doing fine and still exists as a family oriented club. Members really do help each other. The dues are small to keep it going. I for one feel that if you don’t like the way the club or government is doing business, then get involved! If our founding fathers had stuck their head in the sand, where would we be now! Car clubs can be a rewarding experience to be involved with and be a member of. Wow Rob, where did that come from? What I find interesting, is now that with the web, a loose organization of involved car lovers can (this site) can nearly fill the need of a club. Gee, lets go to a SAAC event!

By the way, Hey Carroll and SAAC. How about an event near Steve and Rob!!! We “be” lonely up here with the exception of the Mustangs Northwest annual roundup.

Carroll and Rick. I think we all lose…… Somebody ring in on the logo and SAAC identity question.

Rob
 

Midnight Special

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...Maybe your only "club" is the Calif. DMV? LOL.....

Paul N.
A side note. I may be away for a week or two. My mother has to have cancer surgery, and I'll need to help her. I mention this, because at 83, she's been taking care of meticulous filing and organizing of the Registry. She, in fact, knows all of your names--more than I do!

...No, I also belong to AAA and Condon & Skelly ;-)

Paul, I'm sorry to hear about your mother and wish her and you the very best.

Respectfully,

P.S. Rob - More power to you and all others who are "movers and shakers" in car clubs! I simply have too many "fires lit" to be all-effective at any one thing.

Hell - One of them got away from me a few nights ago & took me three hours to get it all out! ;-))
 

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limelyt

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May 24, 2006
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308
Location
Calgary, Alberta CANADA
Our club has 200 strong and has a lot on events that most of the members come out for both in summer and winter. This talk about the Shelby thing has been going around for the past week now and the executive is now looking towards helping out SAAC with a donation. We feel that if enough clubs are vocal about this matter maybe we can make a difference.

We meet Carroll at this years SEMA show this year and I can tell you that he is mear shell of the man he used to be. Personally think that this might be something the family has cooked up as time ticking away and they would like to have as much control of the Shelby emperor in his passing as they can. It is probably a money thing, a greed thing. The outcome will not be good in any case. I wonder when he is gone how he will be remembered?

Just my two cents
 
P

PNewitt

Guest
Thanks for the kind thoughts, Tim. I'll pass them on. I'll also be working on the book, while waiting/visiting in the hospital.

Interesting about Carroll's condition. Thanks for the insight. He is 84. Some time ago, they said that the Series 1 car was there to keep the company going after he's gone. We "might" consider that it's not so much Carroll himself, but others in the company doing this.

As we've said, it's something we'll probably not know.

Talk to you all soon...

Paul N.
 

case12

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Oct 8, 2004
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I would like to express my enjoyment and satisfaction of being a part of this GT/CS family. This site is responsible for me buying my GT/CS. We are not a club, we dont pay dues, and we all help each other (sorta like the knights of the round table - no head/no foot - everyone is equal here). Fortunately we transcend $ and greed. We do it for love and passion.

Paul's new book is eagerly awaited by this family and the outside world as a testament to the GT/CS and our family. (I just talked to the editor of MCA last night, and she can't wait to get Paul's new book - her old one she said is "dog earred" from being used so much). Fortunately, Paul is working the RIGHT channels with Ford licensing.

Again, we are a fortunate family of GT/CS owners with something greedy $ cant take away from us. One of the family, Casey
 

case12

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I dont want to address any personal issues between Shelby and Kopec. However, in my corporation role I deal with hundreds of multi-million dollar license contracts every year in an approval role. All Shelby's points were straight out of "contract 101" law school, and were most certainly written for him by his attorneys.

It is easy for the "big company" to assert rights on a "small company" unless the license agreement is ironclad. I have seen few ironclad agreements with small companies. Thus, if the "big company" wants to terminate an agreement, they just start calling in the various terms of the agreement that are to their advantage, and the "small company" struggles to provide the info quickly, and certainly relationships are (as almost intended) strained.

Paul has a good relationship with Kopec, and we all know FORD and Shelby are big companies pushing on the "small companies" lately - So, my best guess is this is all about the "big company" wanting to nose in on the "small company" club business now that it appears $$ can be made with the resurrection of the Shelby cars.

The days of handshakes and relationship business are long gone and leave things shaky when the person you shook hands with is aging, dies or just plain changes their mind.

Casey
 
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Midnight Special

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Thanks for the link Steve.

Casey, could it also be said that SAAC was on it's way and consumed with becoming a big $$ entity on it's own, and thus not wanting CS involvement and control as originally established?

Whether you think Shelby's lawyers wrote it or not - if what was stated is true; would you only think it motivated by $$ and perhaps not (some) honor...?

I mean... I don't know....... I would like to see SAAC's response to Shelby's letter. This is purely IMO from a non-member of anything ;-)
 

case12

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Tim,

You may have it right. But, I doubt SAAC was headed for being a big $ program. They have had 30 years to do that. Their newsletter is still a folded up piece of paper. They are pretty much a bunch of enthusiasts, and not businessmen (disclosure - I am a member of SAAC).

It is also likely that they have not complied with some of the requests made from the license agreement. That is where the communication or bad feelings probably started, and then allowed the lawyers to step in. All the points made are typical ones in license agreements - that is the reason I say the lawyers have taken over the issue now.

I was pointing out that unless you have a very tight agreement, and keep it to the "T", it can be terminated. There is usually a time period to remedy the breach of contract before termination, and that is probably where all the bickering began.

Tim, to your point, that is part of the reason I like this site. It is not a club, but more like a family.

Casey

PS. SAAC did send a letter to all its members. I will try to scan it in later today. ...headed off to church right now.
 

Midnight Special

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Thanks Casey...

'Spent alot of today reading up on SAAC as well as the new Shelby group.

If TS does what it says as evidenced by it's renewed momentum - it can be real exciting. Yet we know it would likely not have happened without SAAC carrying the torch all those years.

'Goes to show there are no guarantees and that progress too is painful, especially when greed, ego, complacency etc... are involved.

'Sad like a marriage gone bad... But what will SAAC and your membership face without a real endorsement? Will you eventually feel out of the loop as TS grows and innovation in SAAC slows?

Back in '83, I joined an historical society to become a founding member of a
"transportation" division for the express purpose of acquiring and operating a steam locomotive for the public. The old timers (who wanted to sit on dusty artifact collections) threw a fit! As PR person - the only way I could get around their egotistic obstruction was to organize our own membership, fund-raising and events (and let them read about it in the paper) all the while knowing THEY would become the ultimate benefactors! 20 years later - the museum was built, train was running, and THEY lavished w/ all the new attendance as well as credit while I got to play "trains"! 'Was a real win/ win, but without foresight of a few - that society would've folded years ago...

That's (IMO) a little of how I view this situation...
 
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