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Black GT/CS on eBay

mikegtcs1968

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Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
52
Front end frame rail damage.....Very poor paint job....Rust holes in both torque boxes.....incorrect hood lock retainers....incorrect fog lights.....incorrect steering wheel....exhaust pipes incorrect.....horrible welds with floor pan replacement. Car isn't worth more than $3k in my opinion. I still don't know if it has the orginal grill, I can't see in any of the pics, but I bet it isn't there due to previous front end damage. I don't know if seller knows about all these things, or if he is being decieptful in the auction. I'm not going to bother e-mailing him, one of you might choose to.
 
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390cs68rcode

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Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
2,864
Location
Houston Texas
mikegtcs1968 said:
Front end frame rail damage.....Very poor paint job....Rust holes in both torque boxes.....incorrect hood lock retainers....incorrect fog lights.....incorrect steering wheel....exhaust pipes incorrect.....horrible welds with floor pan replacement. Car isn't worth more than $3k in my opinion. I still don't know if it has the orginal grill, I can't see in any of the pics, but I bet it isn't there due to previous front end damage. I don't know if seller knows about all these things, or if he is being decieptful in the auction. I'm not going to bother e-mailing him, one of you might choose to.


not worth 3k? :icon_lol:
 
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Mosesatm

Mosesatm

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Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
Those are some interesting hood pin retainers. Which picture shows the frame rail damage?

The car is certainly worth $3,000 since the parts are easilyworth that much.
 

mikegtcs1968

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
52
I'm not entirely convinced the parts are original. Realistically, that is what I believe the car is worth, someone not as well versed in mustangs might believe its worth more. Just my opinion.
 

68MustangHCS

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Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Messages
258
Location
Eastern, NC
Mosesatm said:
Those are some interesting hood pin retainers. Which picture shows the frame rail damage?

The car is certainly worth $3,000 since the parts are easilyworth that much.
I'll give 4K for it..but my wife would divorce me if I brought another car home..
 

rvrtrash

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Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
mikegtcs1968 said:
someone not as well versed in mustangs might believe its worth more. QUOTE]

I've read posts from Jason and Arlie for a couple of years now, and always felt they were pretty knowledgable. Everyone has a different level of skill in restoring cars or they may know of a market for the whole car or parts that other people are not aware of. I try to avoid believing that I know more than everyone else or I'm always right. Doesn't always work, but I try. :wink: If I'm reading something in here that I shouldn't, just ignore me.
Steve
 
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Mosesatm

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
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9,011
Thanks for the compliment Steve. I have been scouring eBay for the last year looking for deals and am always amazed at the parts people will buy and what they will pay for them. I throw away a lot of the stuff I see being auctioned and purchased. It seems that almost ANY Mustang can be parted out for over $3,000 and any running Mustang can be sold for that. The one being auctioned is certainly running and it looks fairly nice. Sure it needs work but that's to be expected.

BTW the bidding is over $12,000.
 

mikegtcs1968

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Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
52
Perhaps someone might be ignorant enought to pay this (inflated Market value because of goodwill); but I believe the true reflection of worth is the book value (cars worth subtracting any costs of inherent liabilites you must take on in order to elevate the car to fair condition). Any premium one feels he must pay over this book value is left up to the individual buyer. I may seem conservative in my estimates, but isn't any rational purchaser conservative with his own time and money? Not all people deem their time as worthless. In this case, I feel sure the eventual purchaser will later find he paid too much for this vehicle. Good for the seller, bad for the buyer.
 
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Mosesatm

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
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I've always considered the value of something to be what people are willing to pay for it. When you say "book value" do you mean the price guides?
 

mikegtcs1968

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
52
A minor weight could be assigned to a price guide estimate, but many things aren't taken into account in price guide estimates. Many unique circumstance can affect a cars true value, but not affect the book value. I've restored many mustangs and I can tell you I could not sell a mustang of this condition in good concious to a buyer for this price without verbally revealing the condition of the vechicle implied by the pictures only (as in the case of this auction). The damning condition of this car is missing GT/CS pieces along with the front end damage and dispicable restoration effort on the floor pans and neglected rust holes in the torque boxes. I can assume from these "repairs"' that other hidden restoration efforts will later show their ugly heads.
 

gt bandit

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Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
460
Location
Perth , Western Australia
hello ,

having just joined , i am amazed at how you guys can deduct so much from photos ?

I am looking to purchase a 68GT/CS , can anyone provide me with a recomendation on someone who reviews vehicles for Authenticity , Damage etc. preferbaly west coast USA based.

I am based in Perth Western Australia.
 

Mustanglvr

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Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
3,258
Well whatever you do, take whatever Mikegtcs1968 says with a grain of salt. :icon_bore
 
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Mosesatm

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
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You have just brought up one of the greatest problems with eBay. As a huge CYA the sellers always add disclaimers that the bidders should inspect the car but how many bidders ever do?

My gut feeling is that some cars sell for more on eBay than they would on the normal retail market but I have no proof to back that up. I also think that most of the overpaying can be attributed to auction excitement in that people tend to pay more for an object in an auction than they normally would, rather than fraud by the sellers. The bidders just can't let someone beat them and get the thing!! That's why, as a seller, it's normally best to have a low opening bid and let people bid each other up.

There are some dishonest sellers but I think, for the most part, most of them are honest. The person sellilng the black car posted pictures in which you saw frame rail damage and rust holes so if you saw the damage isn't it fair to assume other bidders will see it and at least ask questions or ask for better pictures? Isn't that possibly why the seller posted the pictures of those areas?

You may be right and the seller may be a total crook but unless we have some proof of that I'm going to be a little less cynical. The seller posted the pictures and it really is the bidder's responsibility to ask questions, ask for additional photos or other documentation, and/or inspect the car. I'm not saying the seller can knowingly hide information but anyone looking to spend that kind of money on a 40 year old car should know enough to ask some questions. General questions work fine. Like, "Is there any rust under the car or is there any frame damage?" General questions force the seller to reveal all flaws.

I, like you (and probably most of the people on this site), am totally honest when ever I sell anything to anyone. I try to explain to the the buyer exactly what is good and bad about the item. I just believe that is the best way to do business and the best way to treat people. You know, the whole do-unto-others thing. But I agree with you that some sellers offer very little information up front and hope people don't ask too many questions. Hopefully all sellers will treat the buyers like we do but until that day arrives it's the bidders job to do everything he or she can to know what he or she is buying.
 

mikegtcs1968

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
52
I agree...but I believe its the sellers obligation to verbally reveal any large problems like frame rail damage (implying a previous accident), or any major structural rust issues such as torque boxes. Don't you agree? The seller is also being intentionally decieptful when they state "IT FEATURES FACTORY FOG LAMPS MOUNTED IN THE BLACK OUT FRONT GRILL". It does not feature factory fog lamps, nor does it feature a factory grill (verified by additional photos I requested from the seller). More deciept is evident in "THE INTERIOR IS IN EXCELLENT CONDITION WITH THE ORGINAL WOOD STEERING WHEEL" The wheel is not orginal to this car.
 
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Mosesatm

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
I think the seller is probably more ignorant of the product than deceitful. We need to remember that we know more about California Specials, and '68 Mustangs, than 99% of the car-selling population. And even with all our knowledge we still argue about things. Heck, just look at some of the discussions we've had concerning round vs. square antennas and 653s vs. 656s. We're supposed to be such experts and we can't even agree on some details!!!
 
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