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GT/CS Paint Codes-question...

P

PNewitt

Guest
For the book, I'm compiling ALL the paint code information for the GT/CS, and would like to know if I "missed" anything.

I have a really good guy at a local Auto Paint Supply store that is willing to dig out "everything" for my book. In fact, he has a friend currently restoring a GT/CS....

I managed to find ALL the current corresponding paint codes for the 1968 Body colors. This includes both Ditzler/PPG, and DuPont. So, instead of getting an educated guess at a body shop, you'll now have a current color code to today's automotive paints.

I am also including the following colors and textures:

- Interior Colors (dash, panels, etc.)

- Primers: underside, interior, and rear axle parts.

- Under hood black (engine bay)

- Exact grille color (we're going to scan an original (non-faded) marchal bracket that I have, and they will know what color code # that will correspond with).

- Underside black

- Spray-on Vinyl Top (texturized), black and white.

- SS Wheel Argent color

- Ford Engine (block to air cleaner) Blue

- Exhaust manifold, etc., paint; concours parts paint (and stripe and markings colors).

My question is...did I leave anything out??

My intent here is to make it so much easier for people to do their own restorations; like assembling a giant model car, by knowing all these color codes, procedures, etc...

--thanks for your help!

Paul N.

p.s. I'm also including the colors codes for Little Red, and the Green Hornet, for people that would like to build their own versions.
 
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PNewitt

Guest
What about the caulk tape and the matting?

Definately...as well as the different types of insulation.

I also meant to include undercoating, whether it was originally from a sprayer or a big rattle can, used at the dealer.

There are three types of primer on the car, too, which I'll explain.

What I intend to do is provide so much information, that you can literally pull your GT/CS apart completely, strip it and prime it, paint it,--and know what was what color, and re-assemble it, like a "giant model car". Not to oversimplify the process, but this will make it easier to know just how to do it.

This is what should have been done for all Mustangs many years ago, but (IMO) I think the restorer shops didn't want this info out to the hobbyists. With this info--you should be able to restore up to a Gold Class (MCA) GT/CS. This is what Mike Jewell did, and we all can learn from his work (as well as a few others here who have also done amazing ground up restorations).

I hope to see from this, a lot more GT/CSs at shows that win awards. It's something that will make a mark (marque? lol) in the Mustang World.

Paul N.
 

somethingspecial

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
1,795
Not just for GT/CS

The nice thing about this information Paul is it is not just for GT/CSs, It would apply for all San Jose built Mustangs. Might I suggest this information not only be in print, but also on a CD, that way the restorer can access the information with sometimes grungy hands, and not destroy their book. Just a suggestion. I took one of your 96 edition left hand books, took the binding out, slid the pages in page protectors and put in a three ring binder for use as a working copy for referrence while I was rebuilding my car. This way, if my hands were dirty when I needed a quick second look, I didn't ruin the book. Mike
 

robert campbell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Paul,
One thing that still confuses me a bit is the “sunlit” vice “anniversary” gold and the Gold Nugget Special. My cars elite report says it is a “Y5” and says it is “sunlit” gold. The goes on to call it a “Gold Nugget Special”. Gold Nugget Specials were sunlit gold. Mine is not. From my experience the “5” just means the black out hood effect. The elite report lists the paint as Ford # 6073-A. I have your original book and it talks about the anniversary gold color. I had my car down to metal and it was not sunlit gold. The paint was a richer darker gold look vice the brighter sunlit gold. Even our website does not have a pick for anniversary gold and lumps all “Y” cars under sunlit gold.

Janice Brulic’s car in anniversary gold and an ok pic of it is in my gallery. It was built 2 days after my car. It does not look sunlit gold. I did order the basic Marti report for her VIN number but it does not describe the paint code. I talked to her personally and she indicated that the owner before her painted it and went to great extremes to get anniversary gold. He was proud and convinced he got it right.

You first book I think told the story correctly. And many do not want to here me say this, but I think the Marti report is wrong. This is not the first discrepancy I have found. Dealer codes were wrong on my report also. I have a contact in my area that is still alive and very sharp and was the head man at Smith Gandy Ford in Seattle in 1968. Mine is wrong on my report and he could name them from heart.

Like many things the part numbers and other numbers get blurry over the years. Superceded numbers and so on.

Anyway, your original book in my mind correctly describes the paint on my car. It was on the taillight panel and the one original side scoop. My other is a repop. Without some of your original book details in the time line from Lee Gray these cars would have slipped from notice. Great job way back then!!

Rob
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Janice's car:

Janicenewside.jpg
 

Mosesatm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
Here is a link to a web-site that states the following.
Gold Nugget Special

( 2 photos of a 1968 Anniversary Gold Mustang Gold Nugget Special Hardtop) NEW POST Anniversary Gold 1968 Gold Nugget Special Mustang hardtop which was only sold in the Seattle/Oregon area. Anniversary Gold was only offered on the Gold Nugget Special package and used the color code Y on the door tag which was shared with the Sunlit Gold. Anniversary Gold which is a darker version of the standard Y-code Sunlit Gold offered in 1968. Other standard options in the Gold Nugget special package was a 4 speed manual transmission, power steering, AM radio, center console, deluxe seat belts, black vinyl roof, performance tires, wheel covers, louvered hood, and front fascia integrated turn signals.
 
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PNewitt

Guest
I need to re-ask the question about the GN Specials, as GT/CSs also--to Lee Grey in my follow up session coming up very soon. It was his assistant that made the deal., and he's still around, so, I'll ask him.

The problem is that the GN Special production pre-dates the beginning of the GT/CS production (that I can't reveal yet), and Kevin Marti may be right, since both production schedules didn't overlap.

So--I need to chase this one down in detail.

Paul N.
 

robert campbell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Paul,
Bottom line is both these cars are not sunlit gold. The owner of Janice's car confirmed this and spent alot of time and expressed this over and over to her. I may be able to dig for some over spray in the door jams and adjacent interior panels or under the car.

My car was the same color as Janice's. Your book even indicated that some cars might have been pulled off the line and staged. So their build dates could be earlier than the build dates of production or pre production.

One thing is for sure. You have two cars that were within two days of each other down the line with the same paint and the same story. They are not "gold nugget specials” or “gold nuggets” or whatever. Mine has no evidence of the nameplate that came with a gold nugget special. Nor does Janice’s.

These cars are anniversary gold 68 coupes with the California Special option on them. Both delivered to Seattle that went two different ways in their lives. Dealer built? Both came from two different dealers. Maybe a local dealer offered this. Or they were staged and pulled from the line after their VIN identity was established. Lots of crazy stuff happened.

Also visit my gallery on the location of the holes on my right quarter panel. They are real and in a very close location to the first cars in the debut. Maybe Lee Gray can shed some light on that.

And trust me, the script holes were drilled not punched. All evidence supports that. A dull drill bit can leave a burr that someone could mistake for a punched ridge. I say this, as the sheetmetal trade was my main trade in life.

Rob
 
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PNewitt

Guest
> The owner of Janice's car confirmed this and spent alot of time and expressed this over and over to her. I may be able to dig for some over spray in the door jams and adjacent interior panels or under the car.

>My car was the same color as Janice's. Your book even indicated that some cars might have been pulled off the line and staged. So their build dates could be earlier than the build dates of production or pre production.

The first I need to see is the Marti reports for both cars. Are these both Y5 cars? Do they have the 74111 number on the tags? ( I can't remember). the gold paint on her wheels--and the look of the stripe, in particular on the front fender raises flags to me about authenticity. But--the Marti can confirm or deny that. Like you said--a lot of crazy things can happen in 40 years...

In my 1989 book, I included # C124554, wit the same 74111 number. I've discovered now that it's too early to be in the GT/CS production. With all the clones out there the ones that pre-number the 139K VINs are most likely clones that precipitated to the front of the list, flagged by the (now) known production start date that I have from Kevin Marti. I'll be getting Marti reports for these early, pre-139K cars to see what is the exact date--on the door tag, or the serialized date, etc...whatever..

There "IS" the possibility of a few early cars painted with the darker ('67) gold color for some reason at the factory. This would be an anomaly, but we can trace it through the Marti reports on your and Janice's car.

>These cars are anniversary gold 68 coupes with the California Special option on them. Both delivered to Seattle that went two different ways in their lives. Dealer built? Both came from two different dealers. Maybe a local dealer offered this. Or they were staged and pulled from the line after their VIN identity was established. Lots of crazy stuff happened.

The more I research these cars, the less I'm inclined to beleive that dealers would actually build these cars. They didn't sell that well, why would a dealer make one? That's a difficult thing to prove...but I'd be happy to see any dealer peperwork to show the mods like that.

>And trust me, the script holes were drilled not punched. All evidence supports that. A dull drill bit can leave a burr that someone could mistake for a punched ridge. I say this, as the sheetmetal trade was my main trade in life.

Well, except I believe that all the holes at the factory were punched. The CS rear quarter has it's own unique part number, and it was a last minute approval, so it was done on the fly at the factory. If you look at an original car, you'll notice the slightest dimpling (side view) of the metal, indicating a punched hole. I can't see production taking the time to drill 8 holes along the line...when the quarter can be punched in pre-assembly, just like the front fenders were for emblems, etc.

If you have a Marti for both cars, I'd like to see what they say.

When I asked Lee about these GN specials, that was 20 years ago...and now that I think about the question, Lee probably meant that the GN THEMSELVES --and not also as GT/CSs--were a special factory deal made in Calif., for the Seattle/Northern Oregon (DSO 74) dealer network. I'll re-ask the question when I see Lee again soon.

Paul N.
 

Mosesatm

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
Rob, if I remember correctly we talked about your car in an earlier thread as possibly being one of the 8 or 12 cars that were used for the GT/CS marketing roll-out.

That could explain the drilled holes, misplaced script, and funky paint color.

Please refresh our memories, do both these cars have early build dates?
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Paul,
Both cars Marti report is in the sticky thread on the site. Basic for Janice's car and deluxe for my car. Both are Y5 cars. Both have a 741111 DSO. Janice's car was her uncle's car and known to not be a clone and in original paint. He painted it himself or had it painted and went to great effort to ensure it was correct and stated it was not sunlit gold. He replaced the stripes and that may be why they look a bit off. Lots of people paint their style steel wheels the same color as the car for a different look. I did on mine.

Arlie is correct we had a long, long thread on whether my car was a possible survivor from the original group that was on display at the GT/CS unveiling. We talked a bit about that and you had color photos and their was no gold colored ones at the event (??). There is also an old thread on the location of the holes on the rear quarter panel. My car had the script higher on the car similar to the cars at the unveiling. My gallery shows some pictures of these holes duplicated on the outside of the car. They are very close in location to where the script on the cars at the unveiling.

As to the holes being punched. First there are two types of quarters on GT/CS cars. Early is recessed and later has the flush mount reflectors. Ford never had a service replacement quarter for a GT/CS car. Either style. To insert punches and dies into the original molds for both style quarters for the low amount of these cars built would have been cost prohibitive. As we discussed before it is my opinion that the cars had a "template" attached to the fender and the holes were drilled before painting. Certainly as you said this is how the first 14 or so were made due to the late add of the script.

It is so surprising to me that not even 1 of the first 14 cars has ever been found. They were pre production cars for sure. As I have stated before. What did cars 15 through 30 look like? What was the VIN number of the first car that came down the production line destined to be a GT/CS? What would the Marti report say for the first 14 cars? In my opinion the report would show nothing more than a basic car with its options. Nothing about a GT/CS option. How many cars were built before the first one that was ordered directly from the factory as a GT/CS?

Whew…. Lots of mystery here. Both our cars may have been clones from long long ago. I bet not.

Rob
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Paul,
Old post that you typed that has a lot of possibilities. Never did find anything in the newspapers. Searched every Seattle paper from December to April of 1968. Lots of gold nugget stuff but no joy on a GT/CS gold nugget.

Rob


Robert's car was sold off the dealer's lot on April 22nd (1968), so there is a possibility that one or more of those GNS Mustangs were modified with GT/CS parts by the dealer.

I have an Autolite (Ford dealer) Newsletter that lists out many CS parts that could have been ordered by the dealer to repair a CS, OR build one, or just modify a Mustang coupe or convertible with CS these add-on parts from Ford.

It might not sound plausible for a dealer to do that (from a $$ standpoint) --but we're talking Spring '68 when sales were down, and dealers were doing stuff like this (like Mel Burns Ford in Long Beach offering "GT-500 Super Snake" Shelbys).

If this happened, it wouldn't show up on any version of a Marti report.

I tell ya, if Robert finds an ad in a Feb-April '68 Seattle paper, with "a few" dealer promo; Gold Nugget Specials--GT/CS versions, we've got some awesome new history here!!

It's the fact that there are at least two GT/CSs in my registry with the 741111 DSOs that makes me wonder what we actually may have here.

Stay tuned!

Paul N.
 

cnassif

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Chula Vista, CA
I just bought a GT/CS that is in pretty bad shape and want to make sure I have the correct paint for all the parts.When does the book come out?
 
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