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Steering Boxes from Flaming River and Replacement

RacingFan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
146
Location
Hayes, Virginia
Just wanted to know if anyone has changed thier steering boxes. I have about 3 inches of play in my steering, and I happened to run across a guy on Vintage-Mustang.com that is doing a group order with some serious discounts. I am paying $350 for a new steering box with shipping! I hadn't planned on doing it so early, but the price was a cool $100 cheaper than I have found it anywhere else. If anyone else is interested, the part number is FR1498. Go to the vintage-mustang.com discussions, and the link about Flaming River products is on the first page. I think his order is going in on the morning of the 3rd so be quick! But on to my question. I have never changed a steering box before, how difficult is it? Also, I know the rag joint needs to be replaced as well, anyone done it? Did you use rubber or polyurthane replacements? THanks, can use all of the help I can get!
 

StraightSix

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
272
My steering has a lot of play as well. Oh, to have funding... :-\

These are quality boxes, so if anybody else has the money for one of these I would suggest getting on the bandwagon.

-Winston
 

Jayscal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
I have changed the box and the rag joint in my car, as the well as every other component in the steering and suspension (the only things I haven't removed were the dash pad, doors and fenders). It is quite helpful to have the shop manual for this job, as it helps in rebuilding the control valve. Another thing that makes this job easier (you don't have to) is to remove the hood, before jacking the car up. This will give you lots of room to work, and let in plenty of light. Just make sure you mark the location so the hood goes back in the same place.

Start with the rag joint, just turn the steering wheel till you can get at the bolts, and loosen the clamp up, this is it no big deal. When the rag joint bolts are loose, just center the steering wheel so the tires are facing straight.

If you have power steering, the worst part of the job is separating the ball stud in the power steering control valve from the pitman arm. There is a special type of ball joint separator that is needed which pushs the ball stud through the pitman arm, the problem is there is not enough room. Some guys I know have have been able to separate this by banging the pitman arm with a 2 pound drilling hammer to unlock the taper, but this didn't work for me. Since I was rebuiling the entire system, I just used a pickle fork to separate the ball stud from the pitman arm. This will rip the ball stud out of the control valve. My control valve had 260,000 miles on it and I was going to completely overhaul it anyway. I was not thrilled doing this, but if you are going to put a new box in, it is time to rebuild the control valve, and the slave cylinder anyway. I had bought a rebuild kit for the control valve and a new ball stud, all the parts are available through the Mustang parts house, they come with all the instructions you need, are are not hard at all to do. Even after the hack job I did to remove it, after the rebuild it works perfect, have no fear. The slave cylinder was easy to rebuild also, and now there is no leaks.

Now with the rag joint loose, and the the pitman arn separated from the control valve, you just remove the 3 bolts that hold the box in. When I did this job, I think I had the power steering pump removed, so there was room to get the box out. With the box out of the car, before removing the pitman arm from the box, you must take notes on where the arm is in relation to the center steering position, so the arm can be reinstalled on the new box in the correct location. I believe the end of the box that goes into the rag joint has a hash mark on it for referance. You will need another type puller to remove the pitman arm. Once this is done you can knock out the old ball stud from the pitman arm. When you install the pitman arm on the sector shaft of the new box, it is to be torqued to 150-225 foot pounds. I was only able to torque it to 150 ft lbs thats alot of oomph, believe me.

I had used a polyurethane coupler (rag joint) as all of the bushings in the suspension were done in poly (she handles like a slot car). Why spend the bucks on a new box, and have a sloppy coupler. The poly kit comes with only bolts, and you will notice the stock coupler has 2 different size locator pins. Now I don't know what kind of hardware the stock (sloppy) couplers come with (hopefully correct, if they come with them) but I cut the old pins and tig welded them back into the poly coupler. I believe the stock 2 different size pins will push into the stock coupler. I didn't like the idea of a 1/4 or 5/16 bolt being in a 5/8 or 3/4 slot on on one side of the coupler, as the pins would not push into the poly unit. I am quite sure this would not be a problem, because the other side will fit tight with the bolt instead of the pin. I am just anal retentive and have access to a tig welder. I know from reading this you have no idea what I am trying to say, but once you remove the coupler it will make sense.

When you put the box back in, make sure the box is centered and so is the steering wheel when you connect the coupler to the column shaft. Another thing to remember is when you remove the control valve from the center link for rebuilding, count how many threads are left exposed on the center link and take note of it. This way after you rebuild the control valve, you can get it back in the correct position to connect to the pitman arm. Now button everthing back up, fill the P/S pump up with fluid, purge the air in the system, and off to the alighnment shop. Then you can truly enjoy what the steering is supposed to be like, you will be amazed.

I hope this answers your question :)

Jay
 

Jayscal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
I just looked through some pictures of when I redid the motor, and I cut out a section that shows the steering box and the coupler. The P/S pump does not have to be removed to get the box out, but know you know why it is nice to have the hood off.
 

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RacingFan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
146
Location
Hayes, Virginia
Thanks Jay! Thats better than a shop manual! I have manual steering presently, so me thinks it will be a tad easier. All the parts are on order, I will keep you informed of my "progress"! Appreicate the help very much. :D
 

Jayscal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
Your welcome, I am glad to share my knowledge with other GT/CS owners. :)
 

guest

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
603
Don't listen to this idiot about using a pickle fork to seperate the ball stud from the pitman arm. This will indeed remove the ball stud from the control valve, but will also bend up the ball stud sleeve located in the control valve extension, ruining it. Use only the correct ball stud removing tool. Be sure to use a pitman arm puller to seperate the pitman arm from your old steering box, it is a very tight fit.
 

StraightSix

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
272
1. Don't call people idiots. You'll wear out your welcome here very quickly.

2. I believe that Jay realized that it could/would destroy the sleeve:

[quote author=Jayscal link=board=1;threadid=159;start=0#626 date=1041574997]
Since I was rebuiling the entire system, I just used a pickle fork to separate the ball stud from the pitman arm. This will rip the ball stud out of the control valve. My control valve had 260,000 miles on it and I was going to completely overhaul it anyway. [/quote]

Does a new sleeve come with the rebuild kit? If so, I don't see the problem with ruining the old one if you have to. I agree that having the correct tool is always better, but if you have to get by without it then sometimes that's okay.

-Winston
 

Bluestang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2002
Messages
46
Location
Rochester, wa
I bought a cheap pitman arm puller for about $20.00. Has two prongs. I then took a square foudation bolt 5/8 washer ( hardware / lumber yard). Cut it in half. Put both pieces together under tha pitman arm. Put puller so that each piece of washer rested on each arm of puller.Popped right off. Simple but worked. No damage.
 
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RacingFan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
146
Location
Hayes, Virginia
Thanks again for all of the help! As luck would have it, Mustang Monthly did an article on the Flaming River Steering Box replacement in this months issue that I just recieved. The Mustang God's are a smiling on me! lol. I am really looking forward to getting started! Oh, as I am readying for the job, are there specific steering components that I should pay close attention to while I am doing this? I know the rag joint, the pitman arm, but anything else I should go ahead and replace while I am at it?
 

StraightSix

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
272
They're not exactly in the same area, but replacing the shocks is a good idea if you haven't already done it (assuming that they need to be replaced). I just did the front shocks on my '86 F150 and it tightened up the steering noticeably. It's still a bit loose due to other component wear, but it's better than before.

-Winston
 

Jayscal

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Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
Winston (StraightSix) I would like to thank you for sticking up for me, as it is quite clear that you read exactly what I had wrote. It is a shame that the "guest" has no tact, and could not give his statement in a different way. It is quite obvious that he doesn't participate in these type of discussions often, and is quick to flame someone. My car had such high milage that everything needed rebuild or replace, and I did not have access to the special puller, and had no intention on buying one. When you buy a complete control valve rebuild kit it comes with a new sleeve and ballstud and and all the necessary hardware.

RacingFan, the only thing else you may want to replace would be the idler arm bushing, these only run about $10.00 . I had no intention of misleading you or anyone about removing the ballstud. I thought I explained my situation the best I can. I rebuilt my suspension over 4 years ago, as of why I thought the P/S pump had to be removed. I appologize for that mistake.

I am hardly an idiot, as I have done all of the restoration work on my GT/CS. Here is some shots of my suspension gutted. All of the components were shot.
 

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Jayscal

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Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
Here are the after pictures, I had scrubbed off all the old undercoating from all the wheelwells and then I cleaned and undercoated the complete undercarriage of the car. I had kept the car bone stock for the first 10 years that I owned the car. With the milage being so high, it was obvious the resale value would never be very high, so I modified the suspension and motor for high performance speed and handling. To the untrained eye the car looks stock.
 

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Jayscal

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Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
Here is a picture of before the 2nd engine restoration in early 2002 the car had 265,000 on it. The original 289 was removed at 225,000 old and quite sloppy but would run and and start every day. The only mod. from original then was a high rise intake and a 4 barrel carb. The C4 tranny was then rebuilt with a shift kit and the second gear servo piston from a Ford truck. I also installed a TCI "Saturday night special" tork converter This gives nice tight quick shifts, and spins the tires shifting into second gear.
 

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Jayscal

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Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
The original engine was replaced at 225,000 miles with one from a 1965 289 4 barrel Mustang with 110,000 miles. I had it bored over .030 , the engine was balanced and blueprinted with TRW 10.0 to 1 forged pistons. The 1965 289 heads have the closed combustion chambers. I drilled and tapped them for screw in studs. I have oversize valves installed and the complete valve train is by Competion cams. The engine redlines at 6,500 RPMS. The 8 inch posi rear with 3.55 gears really makes the car quite spirited.

Last year I stripped and repainted and rewired the engine compartment. The fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump and all of the brake lines were replaced with stainless steel ones. The car has 265,000 plus miles on it, all these parts were in need of replacement. I think this time, I am done for a while
 

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Jayscal

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Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
This is from the last show I entered, and no this is not Pauls car.
 

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StraightSix

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Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
272
Very nice! Are those the stock wheels with covers? The look a tad bigger, but it's hard to tell from the pic.

What tires do you have on it? They look great with the raised white letters!

-Winston
 

Jayscal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2002
Messages
247
Location
Florida
Thanks for the compliments guys. The wheels are the stock 14 inch styled steel wheels. The tires are Goodyear Eagle GT II , P215/60R14. They fit the wheel nicely without excessive sidewall bulging.
 
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RacingFan

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Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
146
Location
Hayes, Virginia
Damn Jay, I just this morning realized that I had missed your three previous posts on this topic. The page turned on me, and I hadn't seen the pics of the restoration process you have done. Geez man, the car looks perfect. I am a fan of restomod's. I think that if you intend to drive the car regularly, and want it to be fun and safe, do what you want to make it handle and run like you need it to. I mean, this side of extending the fender wheels and tubbing the rear end..lol. I am very impressed with your suspension work and the apprearance of the engine compartment! Oh, and by the way, I certainly didn't think you were leading me in the wrong direction with the steering box issue. You were right on target! I read what our "guest" had written and blew it off. Obviously a beginner. Shoot me an email so I have your address. I also need some help on some ideas for some performance mods on mine. Thanks again! This post has sure run the gamut from steering boxes, to performance mods, to restomods, to board etiquete, etc...LOL. Even got some great pics of Jays Cal. Jay, was this your plan all the time??? hehe ;D
 
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