• Welcome to the CaliforniaSpecial.com forums! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all our site features, please take a moment to join our community! It's fast, simple and absolutely free.

    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

    Please Note: If you are an existing member and your password no longer works, click here to reset it.

1968 Thoughts on a recently introduced EFI system

OP
OP
p51

p51

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,025
Location
NorCal
Of note this installation does not use the FiTech fuel management system, but an inline outside the tank fuel pump and return line. I personally want to use the fuel management center option that mounts under the hood and does not require a return line.

Rob

Rob

Couple of comments about the "fuel command center" (FCC)
(1) A number of people have had issues with it based on forum posts I've read... and a number of these guys really do seem to know what they are doing. On the Chevelle site a guy with the handle "relrd" has installed both a FiTech and a Sniper... he had major issues with the FCC

(2) In actuality you do need to run a return line. There is vent on the FCC which is there to allow the FCC not to over-pressurize from the air bubbles picked up in the tank by the mechanical pump. Since liquid gasoline can sometimes make it out the vent, it is required that this be vented back to the gas tank. Hence, you do need to install another line back to the tank; albeit, I don't think it needs to be a high pressure line. But this type of return line needs to enter the tank *above* the fuel level so that it can vent correctly. Many tap it into the fuel filler tube in the back of the car.

Of course the nice thing about the FCC is that it solves the "fuel slosh" problem that you get with a standard gas tank so that you don't get air bubbles in the fuel line. However, there is another possible way to keep your standard tank and use an inline pump (with a fuel return line). And that is to use a Holley Hydramat on your standard fuel pickup unit...
https://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/holley-hydramat-fuel-pickups

With this setup your return line could (I think) hook right into the drain plug.

There is final setup which (I think) can be run completely returnless. That is, per above, use a Hydramat on the fuel pickup, an inline pump, and then use an efi filter with an integrated pressure regulator for an "immediate return" to the tank (again, through the drain plug?). This one is rated for the same pressure as the FiTech TBI
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...-_-tanks-inc&gclid=CMa44rj88tICFU9bfgodycIAJg

This last setup is not one of the setups that FiTech has in their instructions but I think some people have gone this route...

Back to the FCC... another benefit of the FCC (as with other options using a tank with a standard sending unit) is that it is easy to switch back to a carb (swap a couple of hoses). The reason that this is a benefit is that if you ever run into a situation where you're trying to find the source of a problem, you can easily confirm/eliminate that the issue is/is not with the FiTech by swapping back to the carb. I think the people that completely commit to a EFI fuel system without this "swap-ability" are going to have major headaches if/when gremlins show up that could be coming from the either engine or the EFI (eg clogged injector vs a bad plug wire etc)

For all of these you need a tank vent or vented gas cap.

Aside: I really wish FiTech would get to the bottom of their issues with the FCC. It's a great concept but it's got enough bad press that, personally, I would not use it *at this point*...

James
 

cmacias24

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
217
I'm a little late to the party, but just an an FYI, I recently installed the FiTech on my car. I had my engine rebuilt and figured it was the way to go. I purchased the entry level unit and external in-line fuel pump system. Here are the details on the installation on y car.
- Fuel return line. We welded a nipple to the fuel neck for the return line since we didn't have the luxury of tapping the tank since it was full of gas.
- Gas source. We used the original fuel sending unit (3/8 line).
- Ingniiton system. Although they say the petronius system works fine with their unit, we upgraded to a full MSD because we found start up issues with the old ignition system.
Issues: My fuel pump makes a wierd buzzing noise which FiTech says it's a result of using a small diameter fuel source. The recommend a 1/2 inch source. Not sure how I'm going to do that. Another small issue I have is a slow throttle response, but it might be fuel related.
Recommendation: Buy the Tanks Inc. fuel tank system. ($500). The external fuel line system from FiTech is $250, so for another $250, you won't need to modify anything on your car. The Tanks Inc. setup includes a new tank, in-tank fuel pump with a return inlet, and a fuel gauge sending unit.

Although the noise fuel pump noise i a bit annoying, the system is incredible. I've owned several mustang and this system is by far the best over a carb. Super reliable and smooth. While I was connecting some stuff on the car, I accidentally disconnected a vacuum hose and the car shook for about 5 seconds and then idled smooth again. The system was smart enough to change the air/fuel mixture to make the car idle smooth. Not sure how to post pics, but if you request them, i'll send them to you.

Cesar
 

cmacias24

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Messages
217
Sorry, I just saw the advanced options.
 

Attachments

  • 20170226_125553.jpg
    20170226_125553.jpg
    155.7 KB · Views: 41
  • 20170226_125534.jpg
    20170226_125534.jpg
    161 KB · Views: 26
OP
OP
p51

p51

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,025
Location
NorCal
- Ingniiton system. Although they say the petronius system works fine with their unit, we upgraded to a full MSD because we found start up issues with the old ignition system.

Thanks for the writeup.

Some questions...
What Pertronix Ignitor were you using? 1, 2, or 3?
What startup issues were you seeing with the Pertronix?
Does "full MSD" mean just a new MSD distributor or distributor+MSD ignition box?

Thanks
James
 
OP
OP
p51

p51

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
1,025
Location
NorCal
Need a 1/2 inch fuel sending unit with a return line fitting?? Had this one on my GNS!!!

Rob

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/1084_fordsend.html

Ron Morris used to sell a sender configured in the same way but I can't find it on line anymore. This type of sender with a Holley Hydramat hooked to it (instead of the filter sock) *might* be the solution to fuel slosh. (Side note: The vent line from a FCC cannot be hooked to this type of return but must "vent" to a location above the fuel level).

He also has a version of the FCC that he sells that some people are using instead of the FiTech FCC (because of lingering issues with the FCC)
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/powersurge.html

One thing to consider when picking a fuel pump (either in-tank, in-line, or FCC style sump w/pump) is whether it can handle a PWM (rapid on/off cycling) controller. I believe FiTech controls the pump with a PWM. Some (older?) pump designs were designed for constant running (with return line), cannot handle the rapid on/off cycling of PWM controller, and will eventually burn out. My (limited) understanding is that turbine-style pumps can handle PWM control where as other styles (eg. gerotor) cannot.
 

robert campbell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Boy are we (you) zeroing in on many of the complications if not all! Thanks for your research. I had no idea that Robb MC had this! I was more than happy with the quality of the sending unit I purchased!

Rob
 
Top