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Book Info Question No. 1: Electrical

P

PNewitt

Guest
Since things are in "high gear" for the completion of my "GT/CS Recogniion Guide & Owner's Manual", I'll be running some things by you for your response, ideas and suggestions. I would like to include all of you in the process of putting this book together.

This particular thread is about the car's electrical system, and how far I should go to explain it.

I will be talking, in great detail about the following:

A. Taillights, Lic. Plate Light and Back Up lights
- taillight rebuild
- taillight pigtails, bulbs and sockets
- taillight harness, wiring diagram & troubleshooting
- taillight connection to main harness under dash
- Flashers
- (adding sequential flashers)
- (use of LEDs)

B. Fog Lights
- Marchal Lights explained in detail
- Lucas Lights explained in detail
- GT Fog Light Harness--how it works
- GT Fog Light relays
- GT Fog Light Switch
- Wiring Schematics & integration with the headlight/taillight system
- Troubleshooting

These are the unique electrical parts of the GT/CS. I need to know first if I left anything out of the above outlines--and--second, how far beyond the unique items should I go?

Such as-- the under dash wiring loom? Engine Electrical? Interior Lighting? Headlights? and... "turn signal switch to headlight switch typical problems--explained" <??>

There ARE other generic '65-'73 Mustang wiring books, manuals and articles out there, and I may not wish to replicate that information--so what is your opinion? How far should I go?

and by the way--I'll explain the GT/CS unique electrical in plain language.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Paul N.
 

rvrtrash

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Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Messages
3,649
I would concentrate on just the CS parts. As you said, there are other books out there for the generic stuff. I would also keep the information pretty simple, weekend shade tree mechanic stuff. I hope I don't come across as condecending here, but most people's eyes start to roll in their heads when you start talking about voltage drops, floating grounds, etc., and you could easily fill a book with just the electrical portion if you wanted to really get into it. I would rather see someone take a car to a shop because you didn't give enough info than have them torch their car because they didn't understand, tried to follow the book and did something wrong.

Steve
 

franklinair

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Mar 1, 2007
Messages
4,740
I agree with Steve. There are enough diagrams (vacuum & elect) pertaining to generic '68 models. Concentrate on issues for the GT/CS & HCS models.

Neil Hoppe
 

Midnight Special

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Location
Grass Valley, California
...Sounds like you have it covered pretty well Paul. Items A. & B. would be most welcome :)

Regarding '65 to '73 differences; The 1970 Mach I has the ignition switch in the steering column while the '68s are lower right below the gauges where the cigarette lighter is on the '70 ( I removed it to plug in my cell phone charger).

How about a "shade tree dummy" alert (based on my experience) that reads the following:

WARNING!
DO NOT INSERT IGNITION KEY INTO CIGARETTE LIGHTER, LEST YOU SHORT OUT YOUR INTERIOR LIGHTS, PANEL LIGHTS AND STEREO!!

;-)
 
OP
OP
P

PNewitt

Guest
I can appreciate the "science" of electrical problems. My last book was about special effects for model railroaders--actually "beginners", and we talked about voltage, amperage, and other basic things in simple terms. The GT/CS book will cover the details in fairly simple language for the owner--so he/she can explain it to another person, or repair person to fix if they need to.

I can understand how most people freak out about electrical stuff in general. When I did the previous book, I had to work with a retired hydroelectric engineer, and it was like "The Professor" talking to Gilligan (DUH!). I managed to water it down (no pun) enough for modellers to understand enough to enjoy making neat things.

Just as having this information will help owners regain the fun element by being able to fix the GT/CS unique items properly.

I think for the rest of the car's electrical --I'll give a basic outline of what does what in a small diagram; along with a biblio of other sources for more reading. For example, Mustang Monthly did a great article on the basics of electrical problems last month, I think.

The large numbers of folks with taillight and fog light problems warrants "special" attention to it in the book. It may be "too much" for some, but it will be there as a reference--since you'll probably not find this info anywhere else in print.

thanks!

Paul N.
p.s. LOL, Tim! :)
 

Mosesatm

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Paul, how about adding a section about reducing the load on the headlight switch by installing relays for the activation of the taillights and headlights.
 
OP
OP
P

PNewitt

Guest
Paul, how about adding a section about reducing the load on the headlight switch by installing relays for the activation of the taillights and headlights.

Although, I'm sure that is a legit idea, I'd have to decline, since that would both confuse people, and I wouldn't want to "test" the (required) liability insurance for the book (LOL!).

I could possibly explain if there is any "unstable" load anywhere in the system--because of the four added taillight bulbs ( i.e. "after almost 40 years, owners have found that the electrical system has..."). We'll have to measure the added amperage of those bulbs, and perhaps recommend a heavy duty alternator and voltage regulator??

From my 400+K miles on my GT/CS, I'd say that the electrical system has held up pretty well. I think that old wiring may have more to do with failures than the switches--which, although, have their own lifetime.

Good idea, tho'

Paul.
 

robert campbell

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Paul,
Not sure if this is a good idea or not. Maybe a bit about installing LED or "dynamite" sticks. A very common upgrade to a GT/CS. I have not done it yet, and I have noticed a couple threads on the LED lights.

The do's and don'ts??? I have had great luck with "one" wire alternator upgrades. But that it a huge departure for a concours person. The newer electronic voltage regulator is a nice "stealth" upgrade. Seems to help with the "pulsating" lights at night at hot idle problem. The old mechanical regulator seems to struggle with this.

Just some thoughts...

Rob
 

miller511

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Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
567
Rob,

I am still struggling with the pulsing headlights on the CS. I have changed out the alternator, voltage regulator, condensor, and headlight switch.
Is it as simple as changing out the voltage regulator to an electronic type? What's involved in a change over?

-Jeff
 

robert campbell

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
4,321
Jeff,
It is a cheap try. Ask you parts store for an electronic replacement of your votage "mechanical" regulator. Or more specifically not a mechanical type with points inside it. You may have to have a bit of a discussion with them. If you take yours off it more than likely has coils and a set of "breaker points" similar to ones in and old points distributer, if you take the cover off it. The pulsating is the points cylcling closed and shut at low RPM idle at night with a full load due to the headlights, heater, and such. The points going in and out are "asking" the alternator to charge at a heavy rate and then not. Similar to after you start the engine and the battery took a big shock or withdraw from its reserves.

To change to an electronic voltage regulator is a simple bolt in. Buy it and install it. Cheap try to fix this symptom. It could be more than this, but this is a good start and not expensive.

Rob
 

CougarCJ

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
2,186
I know this one

You need to get the electronic voltage regulator from NAPA. It is the only one they sell. About $16. I drilled the cover off a brand new repro AMK voltage regulator and it fits perfectly onto the NAPA regulator with a couple of #8 PK screws. Thus I have "concours correctness" with reliability. It holds a steady 14.2 volts according to my Fluke 87 digital multimeter.

The original style voltage regulators depend on a vibrating set of points to control voltage output of the alternator. This is adjustable but the repros have points made of some foul blend of pig iron that quickly pits and goes to a higher voltage control value. This in turn boils the battery dry if the battery does not explode first.

If you had a brand new NOS original Ford regulator it would last several years but the modern reproductions are hopeless junk. The original type regulators when working properly will cause a pulsating effect in the interior lights that is noticeable even when working properly. Another good reason to go to the nearest NAPA.

Sorry, for the cut and paste. It is from my other car forum site.:smile:
 

miller511

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Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
567
Thanks guys. I'll be making a trip to NAPA soon.

Also, sorry Paul. These threads always go off on various tangents. ;-)
 

PFSlim

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Feb 9, 2004
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1,546
Location
Weatherby Lake, MO
Paul

My biggest thing I needed help with when wiring our GT/CS was "what was the difference between a normal 68 mustang and the GT/CS'. As well, how could I get these GT/CS parts to complete the electrical system. The revamping of the tail lights is a very good thing to include.

I don't know if you want to include this but should you explain the difference in the different groups with regards to interior lights and harnesses??

By the way, everything I learned came from rvrtrash (Steve). I think he is one of the best sources of electrical information we have.

Just my opinion

Paul
 

robert campbell

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Apr 10, 2007
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Cougar CJ,
Great info and explination. My opinion, is this should be part of the Paul's new book. Great upgrades that relate directly to the GT/CS. LED taillights and such. Thanks for the NAPA tip!

Rob
 

CougarCJ

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Messages
2,186
Many Thanks

Cougar CJ,
Great info and explination. My opinion, is this should be part of the Paul's new book. Great upgrades that relate directly to the GT/CS. LED taillights and such. Thanks for the NAPA tip!

Rob

Thank you.

I am a member of several car forum sites. Sometimes it really helps to network and brainstorm with different groups. You just have to know what brain to tap for the various knowledge. :wink:
 

miller511

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Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
567
CougarCJ,

What is involved in "changing out the guts" of a non-electronic voltage regulator to the electronic type? Is it obvious what to connect to inside inside the gutted VR box? Or am I overthinking this? Are you just using the OEM case only?

Thanks, Jeff
 

CougarCJ

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
2,186
CougarCJ,

What is involved in "changing out the guts" of a non-electronic voltage regulator to the electronic type? Is it obvious what to connect to inside inside the gutted VR box? Or am I overthinking this? Are you just using the OEM case only?

Thanks, Jeff

You only change the cover.
No wiring, soldering, or fancy mechanical tricks.
 

Mosesatm

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Jan 18, 2005
Messages
9,011
Would the voltage regulator also cause the gauges to slowly go from reading correctly to reading about 1/4 of what they should?

I can be driving along with all the gauges working great then over maybe 5 minutes the gas, water temp, and oil pressure gauges will all swing down to almost off, then 5 or 10 minutes later they are fine. Then the whole cycle repeats. It's kind of entertaining but I should probably get it fixed!
 

joedls

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Mar 12, 2005
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Location
Lake Forest, CA
Would the voltage regulator also cause the gauges to slowly go from reading correctly to reading about 1/4 of what they should?

I can be driving along with all the gauges working great then over maybe 5 minutes the gas, water temp, and oil pressure gauges will all swing down to almost off, then 5 or 10 minutes later they are fine. Then the whole cycle repeats. It's kind of entertaining but I should probably get it fixed!

That could be your instrument voltage regulator going bad. It's located on your instrument cluster.
 
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