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Old 06/28/2018, 09:50 AM   #1
hatchdog
 
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Location: Spokane, WA
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Car won’t start

My car would not start this morning, 289, Eldebrock 500 4 barrel. It fires, runs for about a second or less then dies. The fuel filter is as full as normal, I poured a small amount of gas into the carb and when I tried to start it, it acted as if it were flooded. No pressure on the accelerator pedal, floored or in between, all made no difference. I’m guessing it’s starved for fuel but with the filter full maybe not? Does this sound like a fuel pump problem or if not, any suggestions?

Fortunately, it’s parked in my garage not on the side of the road somewhere.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 06/28/2018, 10:26 AM   #2
robert campbell
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I would get a volt ohm meter and check the power to the plus side of the coil with the key in the run position. I think this is Neil's car so it more than likely has a Pertronix electronic conversion in the dizzy. You should have 12 volts on that side of the coil. Conform that it disappears with the key in the off position.

Second remove the wire to the starter solenoid that is closest to the main power wire from the positive terminal on the battery. Have your lovely assistant turn the ignition to the "starter" position. 12 volts should appear on that wire and disappear when she releases the key to the run position.

The next thing I like to do is remove the large lead off the solenoid that goes to the starter. Then have your lovely assistant turn the ignition to the start position one more time. You should hear the solenoid "clunk" as it engages and 12 volts should magically appear on the "small" terminal closest to the side of the solenoid that the large starter wire was attached to. Have her repeat and see if it appears when in the start position and disappears when she releases to the run position.


Do this first and then we will go to other stuff. These test will confirm if your have power to the ignition system and if your ignition switch is functioning properly.

Rob
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Old 06/28/2018, 10:26 AM   #3
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Nevermind, in the words of the 60’s rock band Canned Heat, “We’re on the road again”. I kept after it and after adding a little bit of gas to the carb again and working the pedal hard it started. Ran rough for about a minute and I thought I still had problems but it smoothed out. I’m now thinking I may have had a vapor lock, the last time I drove the car was a warm day and I ran the newly charged blowin’ cold AC.

Gotta love these “fix themselves” Fords, huh?

Mike
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Old 06/28/2018, 10:31 AM   #4
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Hey Rob, thanks for the comprehensive suggestions as always. We must have been posting at the same time as your response showed up when I posted my second. Glad I don’t have to run the diagnostics you suggested but would have appreciated the guidance should I have had to.

BTW, Mrs. hatchdog appreciates your “Lovely Assistant” description.
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Old 06/28/2018, 02:38 PM   #5
p51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchdog View Post
My car would not start this morning, 289, Eldebrock 500 4 barrel. It fires, runs for about a second or less then dies. The fuel filter is as full as normal, I poured a small amount of gas into the carb and when I tried to start it, it acted as if it were flooded. No pressure on the accelerator pedal, floored or in between, all made no difference. I’m guessing it’s starved for fuel but with the filter full maybe not? Does this sound like a fuel pump problem or if not, any suggestions?

Fortunately, it’s parked in my garage not on the side of the road somewhere.

Thanks,
Mike....

...I’m now thinking I may have had a vapor lock, the last time I drove the car was a warm day and I ran the newly charged blowin’ cold AC.
If I read your posts correctly it sounds like you tried to start a cold engine and it would not start You don't get vapor lock from a cold engine regardless of how hot it was the last time you drove the car. Once the engine cools down, gasoline condenses, and vapor lock goes away. If I am misinterpreting your posts, just ignore this response.

The world stands aside to let anyone pass who knows where he is going.
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Old 06/28/2018, 05:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p51 View Post
If I read your posts correctly it sounds like you tried to start a cold engine and it would not start You don't get vapor lock from a cold engine regardless of how hot it was the last time you drove the car. Once the engine cools down, gasoline condenses, and vapor lock goes away. If I am misinterpreting your posts, just ignore this response.
Nope, you’re reading my post correctly and you make a good point about the engine being cold. It’s been several days since I last started the car prior to this morning’s issue. After it started I backed it out of the garage, spent a couple of hours washing it, had lunch and after all that it fired right up. Took it for a short cruise and it ran perfectly as it normally does. A mystery indeed. I have another short trip planned for tomorrow, a local cruise in, so we’ll see.

Thanks for the input,

Mike
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Old 06/28/2018, 05:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchdog View Post
Nope, you’re reading my post correctly and you make a good point about the engine being cold. It’s been several days since I last started the car prior to this morning’s issue. After it started I backed it out of the garage, spent a couple of hours washing it, had lunch and after all that it fired right up. Took it for a short cruise and it ran perfectly as it normally does. A mystery indeed. I have another short trip planned for tomorrow, a local cruise in, so we’ll see.

Thanks for the input,

Mike
Sounds to me like a stuck choke.

This getting older ain't for cowards. - John Mellencamp
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Old 06/28/2018, 06:20 PM   #8
p51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchdog View Post
Nope, you’re reading my post correctly and you make a good point about the engine being cold. It’s been several days since I last started the car prior to this morning’s issue. After it started I backed it out of the garage, spent a couple of hours washing it, had lunch and after all that it fired right up. Took it for a short cruise and it ran perfectly as it normally does. A mystery indeed. I have another short trip planned for tomorrow, a local cruise in, so we’ll see.

Thanks for the input,

Mike
Shot in the dark... it could be as simple as no fuel in the carb fuel bowls. After a few days the fuel can evaporate from the bowls (esp if the engine was very hot the last time driven... the high temp heat soak after shut down could cause increased evaporation). It sometimes can take up to 20sec of cranking to get fuel in the lines, to the bowls, and fill them enough to get the engine to fire.

The world stands aside to let anyone pass who knows where he is going.
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Old 06/28/2018, 10:14 PM   #9
robert campbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p51 View Post
Shot in the dark... it could be as simple as no fuel in the carb fuel bowls. After a few days the fuel can evaporate from the bowls (esp if the engine was very hot the last time driven... the high temp heat soak after shut down could cause increased evaporation). It sometimes can take up to 20sec of cranking to get fuel in the lines, to the bowls, and fill them enough to get the engine to fire.
+1 to James!!!!

Rob

By the way, next time you have Arlie who likes thick dark beer and Steve Wick very close to you!!
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Old 06/29/2018, 07:07 AM   #10
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Arlie,

When the car wouldn’t start and I removed the air cleaner the choke was closed as expected. When I messed with the throttle linkage the choke partially opened. I’m not sure if this is normal but I’m guessing so. Car has an electric choke.

James,

You may be onto something here, when I first poured gas into the carb I was very cautious and only added a small amount. Since the car fired every time I tried to start it I didn’t crank it for very long. When it finally started and ran it was right after I added more gas to the carb and had cranked/fired it several times. I do open the hood after each drive to bleed heat off the engine.

Rob,

I gotta figure out how to trade some labor with Arlie and Steve, as you say they are great local resources for GT/CS expertise.

I’m heading up to the local burger joint for a cruise in tonight and plan to take an extended cruise getting there.
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Old 06/29/2018, 09:38 AM   #11
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Definitely sounds like the gas boiled out of the bowl when you shut down the car. That also tends to leave a gasoline odor in the garage.

This getting older ain't for cowards. - John Mellencamp
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Old 06/30/2018, 06:50 AM   #12
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I have started the car several times over the last couple of days and have had no problems. Hopefully this was just an abnormality. It’s been on the cool side here in Eastern Warshinton’ lately, when it heats up I plan to take the car for a good long-hot-run the AC-type of drive and we’ll see what happens. Hopefully nothing!
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Old 06/30/2018, 08:53 AM   #13
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I don't get on the website as much as I used too, (busy cutting up trees on the new place) but I'm always up for a challenge--or just a visit.

Steve

The wannabe formerly known as an owner.
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Old 06/30/2018, 12:49 PM   #14
hatchdog
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrtrash View Post
I don't get on the website as much as I used too, (busy cutting up trees on the new place) but I'm always up for a challenge--or just a visit.

Steve
Cutting up trees is something I’m very familiar with. In fact, I have a tractor with several implements including a three point post hole digger, loader with pallet forks (great for lifting sections of trees for cutting into rounds), rear blade and rotary cutter. I have a trailer to haul it on so let me know if I can be of any help on your new (or old) place.

Thanks,
Mike

PS, I’m retired so my availability is pretty good.
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Old 06/30/2018, 02:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Mosesatm View Post
Definitely sounds like the gas boiled out of the bowl when you shut down the car. That also tends to leave a gasoline odor in the garage.
It does not even have to "boil away." If you use gas with ethanol, it evaporates very quickly especially if the bowl is vented. On my '55 chevy, the Rochester 2GC was vented full time. All the gas would evaporate from the bowl in four days.

Dave
'68 GTCS
8R01J140036 2/8/1968
C4/PS/PB/AC
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