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Old 08/04/2009, 12:54 PM   #1
Duker
 

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Changing oil pan gasket

This is the first Mustang I have ever owned. In fact my first Ford.

I have a leak at the very front of the oil pan. It started with my first oil change in May after I took her out of storage for the winter. It was cold up here. The leak wasn't too bad at first but as the hot weather roled in, the drops are now getting more apparent on my piece of cardboard protecting my garage floor. All the bolts are secure. I had to do the Trans Gasket three weeks ago for the same reason, a small leak appeared.

Can anyone assist me with the steps for changing the oil pan gasket with the motor still in the car?

Do you suggest changing the oil pump at the same time? The gauge is showing no problems but while the pan is down I'm thinking, why not!

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you

Duker

Last edited by Duker; 08/04/2009 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 08/04/2009, 01:57 PM   #2
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I'm far from the mechanical guy in this group but I would offer if you haven't done it already, validate that it is the oil pan gasket the best you can before you head that direction.

Probably start with pressure washing or cleaning it very well to insure that the oil isn't coming from above and running down to this point on the oil pan. Leaks have a way of coming from places that aren't all that obvious at first glance even though they follow the same path and drip from the same point they sometimes are coming from another part of the world.

Cory

Cory
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Old 08/04/2009, 02:26 PM   #3
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I agree on the above post. Check drain plug too.

The last time you replaced the gasket, did you true up the pan gasket surface? In many cases the holes get puckered out and leave a less than flat surface for the gasket.

I don't recall if there is enough room to remove the oil pan. Might be done if the engine mount bolts are removed and the engine jacked up as high as possible.

*Caution - remove the fan and or shroud first!

Scott Behncke
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Old 08/04/2009, 02:30 PM   #4
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...All great stuff. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the oil pump if you don't need to...

Tim
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Old 08/04/2009, 02:37 PM   #5
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Cory is right on. Completely clean the engine with simple green or gently at you local car wash. Take a floor jack and jack stands and pick a hot day, get under the car and clean clean clean.

Bring her back home and ensure she is dry. Put a fresh cardboard under here and determine if the leak is near the front or the back of the oil pan by location of the drip. Sometimes on one side more than the other.

Now check some easy areas.

The 4 corners of the intake manifold where the valley surface of the block meets the heads are famous leakers. Front corners puddle on the timing case covers.

If the above is dry, the try to determine if it is the seal for the vibration damper or the seal for the pan to the timing cover. Either one forces you to remove the pan, but if it is the seal for the damper, you will need to remove the pan to get the best seal on the timing cover. So if you do the pan and it does not stop, you now get to do the pan over again.

Pan will drop right off if you remove the cross member and drop the idler arm to lower the steering drag link.

Oil pump is more than likely just fine if you have good pressure now. A plugged oil pump pick up screen is the death of many a small block. The screen plugs and then the oil is forced through a small hole in the middle of the screen. Pump tries to digest a large chunk of gunk and it twists the oil pump drive shaft and breaks it. Engine is still running just fine, but pump stopped. If you do not have a warning (idiot) light, you may not notice zero oil pressure until way to late. Crank-o and rod-o bearings say by-o!!!

Rob
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Old 08/04/2009, 03:16 PM   #6
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If you have to drop the pan: (Be aware there are seals at the front AND back of the pan also (crankshaft seals)
1.) Jack the front up, and use jackstands to support the car
2.) Drain the oil (might as well change the oil filter while you're there!)
3.) Remove the crossmember below the engine (2 bolts, 1 on each side)
4.) Remove all the pan bolts (IIRC, the ones into the timing gear cover are a different size)
5.) Remove the oil pan. (It'll probably be stuck due to sealer previously installed for the gasket. Gently pry it away from the engine block, and then lower it to the ground.) You'll probably have to lower the front of the pan, then come forward with it in order for the rear of the pan to clear the steering linkage.
6.) Thoroughly clean & remove the old gasket material, and remove the front & rear crankshaft seals. (They're usually a neoprene material, whereas the pan gasket is usually cork) I usually wipe the surface with lacquer thinner to be sure its dry. This is also a good time to repaint the pan to freshen it up. Use the correct Ford Blue!! I also paint the panbolts a stainless steel color @ this time.
7.) Apply new sealant to the pan sealing surfaces. Be generous- it's easy to wipe clean if too much is applied. This also includes the half-round areas where the front & rear crankshaft seals go.
8.) Flip it over on a nice flat surface, and let it sit overnight
9.) Prior to putting the pan back on the engine, apply a thin skimcoat of sealant to the gasket surface.
10.) CAREFULLY put the pan in place, being careful of the front & rear seals. Install the pan bolts, and be careful not to over torque the bolts into the timing gear cover- it's aluminum & easy to stip out. (Ask me how I know!)
11.) Add oil, re-install the engine crossmember, set'er back down on the floor, and check for leaks.
OR-

Fly me up there, and I'll do it !!

Neil
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Old 08/04/2009, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinair View Post
OR-

Fly me up there, and I'll do it !!

Neil
Neil, you & Rob should head up a lecture circuit. I'd pay! ;-)
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Old 08/04/2009, 05:49 PM   #8
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Set it up. I'm game!! How 'bout it Rob?

Neil
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Old 08/04/2009, 08:23 PM   #9
robert campbell
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I love to help where I can! I have made enough dumb mistakes for about 20 GT/CS owners life times.

They may benefit from my pain!

Rob
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Old 08/05/2009, 06:20 AM   #10
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Listen everyone

Thank you for the info... Frank and Rob should get together, and Frank hopefully someday you will make it up here. I knew if I was specific about my problem you are the people to talk to.

The motor was rebuilt 18 years ago in Arizona and in that time there has only been 6,600 miles put on the car. It has spent most of the 18 years in previous owners garages up here and only being used on Sunday drives by the past owners. I have talked to them.

When I purchased the car two years ago, I admit, I expected this to happen sooner or later. Not to jinx meself, I expected rear main seal to go first.

The new gaskets I have just purchased are cork for the oil pan and valve cover gaskets. Is this okay? Should I just do the timing gasket too?

I really only want to do this once. I am going into hospital soon and I will be unable to drive her for awhile.

Thank you

Duker
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Old 08/05/2009, 06:53 AM   #11
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What about the crankshaft seals that go in the saddles of the oil pan?

Scott Behncke
1968 GT/CS 302-4V Honors flysis income beezis onches nobis inob keesis
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Old 08/05/2009, 08:06 AM   #12
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Duker;
You need the cork pan gaskets and the two neoprene seals for the front & rear crankshaft mentioned by Cougar above. Negative on the valve cover gaskets, unless they are giving you a problem (leaking).

I forgot to mention, I use RTV or 3M BLUE sealant for the pan gasket, Form-A-Gasket (a black, gooey concoction) for the crankshaft seals. For the crankshaft seals, coat the pan area generously and put the seals in place. Any overage can be wiped clean with a rag & lacquer thinner.

(I think, as a gesture of comradeship, Rob should come up there & do this job- with Amy as his assistant)

Neil
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Old 08/05/2009, 10:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinair View Post
Duker;
You need the cork pan gaskets and the two neoprene seals for the front & rear crankshaft mentioned by Cougar above. Negative on the valve cover gaskets, unless they are giving you a problem (leaking).

I forgot to mention, I use RTV or 3M BLUE sealant for the pan gasket, Form-A-Gasket (a black, gooey concoction) for the crankshaft seals. For the crankshaft seals, coat the pan area generously and put the seals in place. Any overage can be wiped clean with a rag & lacquer thinner.

(I think, as a gesture of comradeship, Rob should come up there & do this job- with Amy as his assistant)

Neil
Rob would love to go!! Neil, get a plane and pick me up at the Bremerton National airport!!!

I am not a huge cork fan. FELPRO premium gaskets is what I like. But cork has worked for years.

Of note in Neilís procedure. When you get the pan gasket set with the rubber saddle seals you will note that the cork gasket has a small tab that is intended to slip into a lsot on the rubber saddle seals that insert in the rear main cap and the bottom of the timing cover. When doing this in the car, I install the rubber saddle seals first with the goo that Neil uses. But I use clean off the bottom of the block with a lacquer thinner, or some other oil removing product to get a clean surface. Then I use 3M weather strip cement to glue the gasket to the bottom of the block and insert the tabs into the slot in the rubber seal.

As Cougar said use a small piece of wood to back up the pan flange and hammer the holes that may have puckered up over the years flat again. This will assist in a more uniform squeeze on the pan.

Then I put a small bead of RTV (1/4 diameter max) in the center of the pan surface that mates to the gasket. It squeezes both directions. Into the pan and the outside and if you apply too much, I have seen it fall off into the pan and plug the oil pump pick up screen. Not very often, but I have seen a lot of engines with pieces of RTV in the pans.

Then while laying under the car I put a small glob of RTV in the area where the pan gasket tab sticks into the rubber saddle seal.. This is an area prone to leak. Make sure that you do this at once while the pan rail RTV is still wet.

Of note, I have four ľ inch studs that I screw into four of the pan holes to ensure it goes straight up without moving around as it touches the globs in the tab area. You will understand why if you do it by yourself. It is 3 handed affair under there!! Wow I worked in a rhyme! You can even use a couple ľ 20 nuts to squeeze it up and the remove the studs when you are done tightening.

This is anal and Neilís procedure works well.

Of note, ďanal robĒ always chases all the pan bolt holes to ensure they are clean and do not bind up before tightening the pan to the gasket.

Rob
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Old 08/06/2009, 05:06 AM   #14
Duker
 

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Wow!

Lots of info to take in people...Love it, thanks everyone I wish we could have a show up here just GT/CS. I have seen one other person with a CS which is used just for quarter mile at the race track I only saw the car and owner once. Unfortunately

People up here can't believe that my car is a "REAL" Mustang they tend to think it is made up or a clone of the Shelby. After I show them the Marti Report and the original brochure they become believers. It can be funny at times.

One more thing What oil do you guys put in? I have been using 10W-30 plus I have been using all Lucus products, in oil, trans, power steering and differential. I'm thinking 10W-30 maybe too thin for summer?

Duker
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Old 08/06/2009, 07:16 PM   #15
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oil oil oil!! Your 10w 30w should be fine. I have run 20w 50w for years, but these days thinner is better if your engine runs decent oil pressure.

Now lets talk synthetic oils.....

Rob
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