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Old 06/23/2007, 08:50 PM   #1
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California Special Script (PAUL NEWITT)

I found another CS in the weeds. it was a 289 4-speed car I believe, motor gone but tranny is there. Anyway, the CS script is reversed on the right side, Special is before California, that has been mentioned a couple of time here before. A Friday or Monday car? Anyway I am waiting to see what he wants for it. Its kinda rough but the fiberglass parts are there.

Paul the vin is 8RO1C167096 is this in your registry?

Thanks,
Kevin

1968 GTCS J code 302 4v Auto. / 1967 A code 289 4v Auto. "Local Promotion Car" / 1968 HCS 289 2v 4 speed / 1965 Fastback A code 289 4v Auto. Build Date 9-11-1964 two weeks prior to the introduction of the fastback / 2007 Mustang V6 5 speed / 2007 Shelby GT Black-Black 4.9 5 speed.
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Old 06/23/2007, 09:01 PM   #2
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It's not in the '86 registry
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Old 06/24/2007, 09:50 AM   #3
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Not in the 96 either. 167093 and then the next car is 167097.

One thing that sticks in my mind is the way the scripts were installed. To the best of my knowledge, of what I have read and seen, is the holes are drilled. This is somewhat supported by the lack of a "specific" quarter panel for GT/CS only. And of course they woul need two styles as early GT/CS cars had the recessed rear markers and later ones the flush mount.

So if the holes were drilled Ford more than likely had a "template" that was placed on the quarter to drill the holes. I would assume before the final painting of the car. So looking at the more normal location for the right side it is obvious that there were "two" templates. One right hand and one left hand. Kinda makes sence, as I would assume that the edge of the rear of the quarter panel would locate the script fore and aft on the car.

So if any of the above I wrote is true, I wonder if the template could be used so to speak "upside down" (not upside down, but using rear side of the left hand template on the right hand side, or flipped). If you visualize the same left hand template being used upside down or flipped on the right side, viola, the "California" script is more forward on the right side, but the hole spacing, the relationship to the rear quarter fore and aft, and the relationship between the "California" and the "Special" script is preserved.

Did they lose the right side template in the middle of the night? Too much drinking the on Sunday night? Could the template realy be used upside down or flipped?

One thing that would be interesting would be to locate the distance of the aft most peg on the "Special" script, to the end of the quarter panel where the end gap attaches. On your car, and the one in the weeds. Then measure the right hand most rear peg on the one in the weeds and see if it is identical to the left side. That would shed some more light.

I would also submit that based on a template locating the holes, there may be minor differences in any car. Depending on how accurately and easily the template could be fit to the car. I was a sheetmetal mechanic by trade and used templates in many cases in production of parts in high numbers. If the location or tolerance was not critical, some deviations occured. And I have used one template that would work for a right and left application.

It would be fun to get a bunch of GT/CS cars together on a Saturday and open the trunks and measure a few. Might surprise us!

Rob

Last edited by robert campbell; 06/24/2007 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 06/24/2007, 10:07 AM   #4
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I don't remember what the reason was, that the script was placed different on the pass. side. Were they drilled and put on by hand or were the holes pre-drilled from factory? I remember reading about it here but not sure what the answer was. I thought that they may have used the pattern for the holes from the drivers side and flipped it and used it on the pass. side. Which would explain the California being after the Special.

Thanks for letting me know on the registry.


Kevin

1968 GTCS J code 302 4v Auto. / 1967 A code 289 4v Auto. "Local Promotion Car" / 1968 HCS 289 2v 4 speed / 1965 Fastback A code 289 4v Auto. Build Date 9-11-1964 two weeks prior to the introduction of the fastback / 2007 Mustang V6 5 speed / 2007 Shelby GT Black-Black 4.9 5 speed.
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Old 06/24/2007, 11:10 AM   #5
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Kevin,
Was looking through both the 86 and 96 registry. For instance the hole for the hood locks is unpainted and rough and said to be done after the car was painted.

It would be so cool to talk to someone on the San Jose assembly line. I get the feeling that these cars were esentially regular coupes that were assembled and moved to a "special area" and created into CT/CS's. Some of the items that would be hard are the tailight wiring and the recently discoverd flasher bracket. Maybe these were installed as the came down the normal line.

The rest of the items could be added upon completing the car. Even painted! The one other difficult item would be the side scoop installation. It requires removal of the interior panel and the back window regulator and guides. Or Mr. Fantastic from the Fantanstic Four to put that center nut on the post and tighten it on the inside!!

The stripes, the hood locks, the fog lights and switch, the taillights and trunk glass, are all easy to perform at the end of the run so to speak. All ready painted the same color and bolted on.

Again, I am just trying to imagine how these cars were assembled. I could be all wet. But I would bet that the bulk of the final stuff was done in a special area. Templates for the script attached to the quarter, drilled, and the script installed.

I do not see these cars coming down the "general" assembly line with the genric coupes, but Paul does indicate batches of them coming down the line. So with that thought, maybe they did.

The mystery continues..... Paul has indicated he is going to LA and talking with his contacts. Maybe he can shed some light on all of this.

Certainly there seems to be enough authenticated GT/CS cars to prove the existance of the right side anomoly of the script installation. Gee, rare cars in the own right!

Rob
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Old 06/24/2007, 11:31 AM   #6
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Thats what I though could have happened (flipped template) If they were not paying attention. If I was to purchase this car, that is how I would leave the script. I agree with you. They were probably pulled to one side and finished up. The vin numbers you gave me are only a couple away from this vin. It would be interesting to see if there script is offset also. Maybe the person on duty that shift was incorrectly installing the script. DOUGH! (Telling the boss on duty), I didn't do it, it was that way when when I got here.

Kevin

1968 GTCS J code 302 4v Auto. / 1967 A code 289 4v Auto. "Local Promotion Car" / 1968 HCS 289 2v 4 speed / 1965 Fastback A code 289 4v Auto. Build Date 9-11-1964 two weeks prior to the introduction of the fastback / 2007 Mustang V6 5 speed / 2007 Shelby GT Black-Black 4.9 5 speed.
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Old 06/24/2007, 11:58 AM   #7
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The holes for the script were clearly punched after the coating was applied to the inside of the trunk on my CS.

IMO, anything is possible on a human production line. My CS/CJ came with a brace in the trunk used for staggard shocks and it was ordered with a C6 auto, staggaed shocks only came with the 4 speed trans.

John
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Old 06/24/2007, 12:29 PM   #8
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I love it when you talk about your car John. Being such a rare, one-owner car like it is, makes it truly special.

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Old 06/24/2007, 06:25 PM   #9
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Hi Guys,

Thanks, Kevin for providing the VIN. I'll check it out. Interesting that it has such a late VIN #. As for the script set "wrong", it may be that the rear qtr. was replaced or repaired from an accident, and the worker at the body shop didn't know how it went back together. This has happened a lot.

I'll ask around the factory workers I know about various techniques for the CS assembly. Once I read in a Mustang Monthly article on the GT/CS long ago by Jim Smart that the CS script holes were punched--since you can see an ever-so-light dimpling on the sheet metal if you get a look (with the script removed) at it by looking from the rear edge along the side of the body.

I'll have some sort of assembly procedure for the CS in the book, too.

Interesting speculations.

Paul N.
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Old 06/25/2007, 05:06 AM   #10
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I would believe that story about the absent minded body man, and I beleive that has happened, but all on the same pass side, in different areas of the country? What would be the odds of that happening. A few passing through the assembly line to me is more believeable. Also this quarter panel appears to be original to the car, which means he would have had to patch the correct holes and drill new ones. Anyway its very interesting.

Thanks,
Kevin

1968 GTCS J code 302 4v Auto. / 1967 A code 289 4v Auto. "Local Promotion Car" / 1968 HCS 289 2v 4 speed / 1965 Fastback A code 289 4v Auto. Build Date 9-11-1964 two weeks prior to the introduction of the fastback / 2007 Mustang V6 5 speed / 2007 Shelby GT Black-Black 4.9 5 speed.
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Old 06/25/2007, 12:20 PM   #11
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I would believe that story about the absent minded body man, and I beleive that has happened, but all on the same pass side, in different areas of the country? What would be the odds of that happening. A few passing through the assembly line to me is more believeable. Also this quarter panel appears to be original to the car, which means he would have had to patch the correct holes and drill new ones. Anyway its very interesting.

Thanks,
Kevin
Oh. Well, that would change the speculation on my part. Does this quarter panel have the date codes stamped in the valley where the decklid weatherstrip sits into? it should be dates close to the other side--and the middle piece of sheet metal.

"IF" it was a mistake--that would suggest that the process of doing the holes was not as high tech as we might think. A reverse template for holes could have happened. You should remember that this wasn't exactly 100% quality to detail down the line--as a late 60's factory process. And--the factory workers and management weren't too excited about having to make these cars--since they had a lot of extra things to do. It was the first time that fiberglass was introduced to a Ford car--at a Ford factory.

One thing I would like someone to do (if it's not too much to ask--thank you) is to get a really close look at an original script hole with a high magnification lens--and see if it was drilled (scoring lines), or if it was punched.

If it was drilled, they might have been some debris, such as curled metal on the inside of the hole(s).

Something to consider. Thanks for the detective work. That is what makes our Marque of Mustang so interesting, with it's full history--in such great detail.

Paul.
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Old 06/25/2007, 12:41 PM   #12
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I have heard from one of the local Mustang shops where one of the customers worked on the Mustang line in the late 60s, and he liked to tell the story of a lot of workers had motorhomes in the parking lots. Many workers would go to their MH for lunch, and have to much liquid refreshment. They would return to the line intoxicated and resume work. This may explain the "OOPS". This Mustang shop worker told me this as he was showing me his 65 FB with two left hand rear inner wheel houses welded in place at the factory. As if they were stuck together and welded in place this way. Stranger things have happened. Mike

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Old 06/25/2007, 03:59 PM   #13
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The man who owns the CS is out of town for a couple of weeks, He hasn't come up with a price as of yet, but if I can strike a deal with him and get it home I will give the quarter panel a closer inspection to see if there are any tall tale signs to this mystery.

Its kinda funny about the quality control, I purchased a new 81 Trans am and found out later (never noticed) that the pass side pin striping was missing around the wheel wells, weather strip missing from under hood and doors, right rear quarter wasn't buffed out (dull paint), temp gauge went out the first month (Warranty didn't cover electrical) tumblers in the ignition fell apart leaving me stranded, with the closest dealer 50 miles away, towed my car through 40 miles of repaveing tore off my rear window louver, (none of this covered under there insurance) and there was a rattle in the pass. side door which was a window regulator that wasn't riveted into place------all in 3 months------I went with Ford.

Kevin

1968 GTCS J code 302 4v Auto. / 1967 A code 289 4v Auto. "Local Promotion Car" / 1968 HCS 289 2v 4 speed / 1965 Fastback A code 289 4v Auto. Build Date 9-11-1964 two weeks prior to the introduction of the fastback / 2007 Mustang V6 5 speed / 2007 Shelby GT Black-Black 4.9 5 speed.
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Old 06/25/2007, 04:24 PM   #14
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I have heard from one of the local Mustang shops ...... Many workers would go to their MH for lunch, and have to much liquid refreshment. They would return to the line intoxicated and resume work. This may explain the "OOPS".....Mike
So...that would mean that one would prefer a "morning car" to an afternoon car"., vs. Mon/Fri car.

One CS out there in the registry has a um...well...(we'll just call it "anatomical") diagram under his pass. side dash panel. I have a photo of it for posterity, but not for the eyes of outsiders. It was on a red 390 car, too.

Go figure.

The things I do for the Registry....sheesh!

LOL!!
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Old 06/25/2007, 05:09 PM   #15
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This is very fun for me. I have extensive knowledge in die forming and punching. That was my basic trade as a youth and young adult.

John’s comment that the holes were punched after his inner coating was applied is very telling. My original quarter panel on the right side shows “disturbance” of the coating right around the hole. And its date codes are compatible with the rest of the car. Certainly, if the holes were in the quarter panel when it was “formed” in the die, then the coating would cover the holes when it was sprayed on. To my mind the trunk coating was applied just prior to the painting of the car, as the color of the car is on the trunk coating. The coating would not be on the quarter panel during the assembly of the body, as it would affect the spot welding process. And is a fire hazard. So the holes would need to be cleaned out with a drill or ice pick or?? There seems to be no service replacement quarters for a GT/CS with holes in them. Indicating again that the holes were not part of the forming of the quarter itself.

So with that in mind it is my opinion that the script holes were “created” in the quarter after assembly of the body. We know the large holes in the underside of the hood for the locks were raw and unpainted. Indicating they were cut in after the hood was painted. So let’s assume the holes were not in the quarter when it was formed. Then they may have been “created” in the panel either before spot-welded and assembled with the car or after assembled. My experience in the sheet metal trade tells me that “punching the holes in a fully formed panel would be very difficult. The punching process requires a “punch” and a “die”. The punch would need to penetrate the panel with the die correctly behind it in perfect alignment with the punch and supporting the metal around the area to be punched. The quarter when formed is “rounded” in this area, and if not done with the full support of the original forming die, it would more than likely dent an area around the diameter of the die area. I feel that Ford would not construct a duplicate of their original forming die just to punch these holes. They would have put removable punches in the original forming die and the same die could be used for both applications. Of course remember the running change from recessed markers lights to flush mount ones. So they would need two forming dies and then would have the availability of service panels for purchase through Ford.

I have had years of experience punching holes in all types and thickness of metals and diameter of holes. The steel used in the quarter panel and the small size of the hole would make it very difficult to discern from drilling or punching. A properly sized punch and die leaves little to no burr on the side the punch goes through. The only way to really discern it would be to take a wrecked, known GT/CS quarter panel and cut one of the holes out. Carefully remove all paint and trunk coating and use a microscope or very high-powered magnifying glass to examine the metal around the “hole” as Paul suggests. A punched hole would be smaller on the impact side and show evidence of shearing in the hole with the exit side being slightly bigger. A dull punch and die can leave a noticeable burr on the exit side. A drilled hole is similar in size and displays a cutting vice shearing look to it.

Again, for a moment, let’s say that the holes were not part of the forming process nor created in a special form just to put the holes in the quarter later on. The holes could not be punched once the quarter is assembled on the car. There is no economic method of a punching process to put these holes in an assembled body. In my mind that means templates and drilling. Maybe before the paint, or maybe when the stripes, and the rest of the glass were put on the car. I would go on record to say that the first few cars were drilled because it has been stated that the script was a late decision. The California Ford dealers said, “No script, no car”. That in my mind is the most telling clue that these holes were not in the very first cars and most certainly drilled. After that I bet the rest were too. To me these cars indicated that Ford modeled the process that Carroll Shelby used and had a special line or area that finished GT/CS cars.

I agree with Kevin. Too many cars with backwards scripts. And if the quarters were truly punched in the original forming, then backwards script could not have occurred. A left side template used on the right quarter to drill the holes. Kevin, get the date codes off the quarters on that car. They are in the “trough” that keeps the water out of the trunk. Get a code of any other known sheet metal. They are everywhere if you look. The tag on the steering box is another area to find a date. I bet you find that that right quarter is original to the car. Just another anomaly in a long line of anomalies about these cars!! And it makes it rare in its own right!

Rob
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