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Old 11/22/2005, 11:58 PM   #1
PNewitt
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MCA Judging, and your round antenna...

On page 86 of the December '05 issue of Mustang Monthly, Jason Rexler of Tampa Florida wrote in about the round antenna on his '68 390 Fastback. He states that MCA claims that his round base antenna is "wrong", despite the C8ZZ Ford part number. Bob Perkins claims that the C8ZZ-18813-B part number is a service replacement for '67 Mustangs only, and that all (MCA judged) 1968 Mustangs should have the square based antenna.

This is appalling.

I usually give leeway to these things, but not on THIS one! In my 1988 GT/CS Recognition Guide book, on page 56, I talk about the GT/CS Survey results where 85% responded that they had an original ROUND antenna on their GT/CS. This was back in 1986-87. The remaining 15% that had square based antennas responded that they had to replace the antenna, and ended up with a square based version.

IN MY opinion, I feel that MCA bases their judging on cars primarily from the Dearborn and Metuchen(NJ) plants, where they probably did use square based antennas. This has been a point of contention for a very long time. It's without a doubt that the San Jose-produced Mustangs in the '68 production period used the round based antennas. Each plant had their own "differences", and this was one of them. MCA needs to accept and document those plant and production differences, when writing their rules.

Perhaps, based on my research, MCA should reconsider this. This is just not a GT/CS things but for ALL Mustangs and Cougars built in San Jose at that time. Besides, look at the GT/CS in the advertising...it has a round antenna.

This has to change. I don't want anyone changing their antenna to a square based one, just to avoid "losing points" at a show. I stand by my 20 years of research.

Paul N.
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Old 11/23/2005, 01:22 AM   #2
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Paul, my car was last registered in 1979 (before I restored it) and the antenna base was round, with no holes in the fender for the 4 screws that hold the rectangular base down. In addition, a buddy of mine just pulled a round base antenna off a 1968 Ranchero, so I think the round base must have been used on a wide variety of west coast cars. I stand behind you 100%.
Steve
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Old 11/23/2005, 06:34 AM   #3
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Paul,
I just read the December Resto Roundup and Bob Perkins IS saying the round base antenna is factory correct and the square base is incorrect. He also states: " Your question has been asked often over the years and is still a topic of discussion at MCA rules meetings." Also remember many dealerships added options at the dealership, ie. radios and a/c. Some dealers used genuine ford parts, others elected to use something else. What the MCA has said in the past is if you have documentation they will accept it, unfortuniately most people do not have the documentation.

I agree that each factory had minor differences, when I restored my car I kept some things as I found them and others I changed for the sake of arguement. The MCA rule book used in conjunction with the factory assemebly manuals, and the many pictures I took of my car guided my restoration.

As you know I just finished my car and have shown it in 2 MCA shows (local) I received copies of the judging sheets and will change some thing I lost points on and I am not changing others b/c I know I am right. I am currently a MCA Certified judge for 67-68, does that mean I know everything, NO.
I took who judged my car into consideration when looking at my judging sheets.
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Old 11/23/2005, 12:27 PM   #4
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Don't take me wrong on this--I understand how things like clubs and opinions can be very subjective.

But what is frustrating is how rules can affect how a car is restored--to the point of changing things TO the rules, and not as they were found on (an original, untouched) car; just to win points.

What this does is water down authenticity, and conforms to (sometimes) unaware, and subjective thinking on the part of those who write the rules (for any club).

I will do my best to provide the best information about this select group of Mustangs, produced from Feb-July 1968 at the San Jose (Milpitas) Ford Plant.

As a side note, I feel that MCA has had waay too much time to correct things like antennas and factory variations, and that this should have been resolved a long time ago. The other descrepency is even with good information, there are judges that don't (& won't) pay attention to details, have biases, and are not consistent with what they know or don't know.

This is why the next registry book will have concours guidelines that are researched in detail. My expectation is that we are the BEST group of Mustangs to compete seriously at car shows-- and to win. When people see a GT/CS (or HCS), they'll know that it's an accurate Mustang, and the flagship for all 68's. We WILL be the most informed about San Jose-produced 1968 Mustangs! Who else, but "us" knew about the reflector change date, or about the pads on the dash, etc.

One more thing--take those assembly manuals and Ford documents about production with a grain of salt. Parts changed midstream along the production line all the time.

Paul N.
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Old 11/23/2005, 03:02 PM   #5
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Am I missing something? Everywhere I looked from vintage material I collect shows a round base antenna!

Paul, in your book the pictures of the promo GT/CS's unveiled by Lee Grey in LA all have round base antennas.

The "California Made It Happen" Dealer brochure (I have an original) shows the GT/CS with a round base antenna.

In May 1968 Motorcade Magazine (I have an original) a 68 fastback is shown on page 32 with a round base antenna, and the GT/CS on page 63 is shown with a round base antenna.

The 1968 Mustang Specification manual (I have an original) shows the 68 coupe and 68 fastback with round base antennas on pages 1,3, 18.

The Ford Times magazine (I have an original), published by Ford, March 1968, shows the 68 coupe and 68 convertible with a round base antenna.

Interestingly, a Ford "Take A Lucky Look At The 68s" dealer brochure (I have an original) shows a 68 coupe with no antenna but a round hole in the left passenger fender (no kidding - a promo picture in a field with male/female models, and a hole in the fender...)

I could keep looking, but I thought this was a good enough sampling. So, where does the rectangular base antenna that MCA brings up come from? (I saw the article in Dec Mustang Monthly column and was bewildered too).

Casey
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Old 11/23/2005, 05:39 PM   #6
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I know, Casey, it makes no sense.

Those who treat concours rules and authenticity seriously, tend to read the spec sheets and other materials as they are--not as things really were at the plants.

The "official" FORD antenna for all cars then probably was the square antenna, but for some reason, a supplier might have offered the older ('67) round one to the SJ plant for a dollar cheaper. Maybe the cars built after the strike used the round ones, to save time for the workers. I don't know, but it sure looks like the round one was the antenna of choice--despite what some engineer in Dearborn put on paper back in late 1967.

Some could argue that the pics were of pre-production '68 Mustangs with '67 antennas, so, "it's wrong". Well, the ad pics for the GT/CS were shot around mid Feb '68.

It's not so much this one antenna thing, but rather an "attitude" where rules are not ammended or changed as they should. "Good 'nuff" won't do here.

If some MCA judge is here (lurking?), what about some explaination? I'd sure like to know....or get Bob Perkins to explain what is going on. It's not like I, or "we" want any preference for our cars, but to just get to the truth about these things, instead of relying on the whims of those who set and write these rules.

Thanks--
Paul N.
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Old 11/23/2005, 06:37 PM   #7
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I am obviously missing something, Bob Perkins is clearly stating that the ROUND BASE antenna is CONCOURS correct and the Square Base is incorrect. Do you disagree?! It sounds like everyone here is arguing the round base antenna is correct. Is there anyone saying the square base antenna is right?

Jason Rexler never stated he had a round or square antenna. He stated he is consistantly told by MCA judges that his antenna (C8ZZ-18813-B) is wrong. Bob Perkins then explains the C7ZZ round base antenna is correct and the C8ZZ-18813-B is a Square based Service Replacement and is incorrect.

Are you guys reading Resto Roundup backwards or am I missing this whole thread?

Danny
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Old 11/23/2005, 08:05 PM   #8
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Danny, you are right. I went back and looked at the Mustang Monthly December column by Bob Perkins and it says the C7ZZ antenna (round base) is the correct one. (The language and picture in the article is a little confusing, and the picture they chose is obviously not Jason's car).

So, from all the vintage literature I looked up, and Perkins, it would seem clear the round base C7ZZ antenna is correct.

I still think it is cool that the one vintage dealer brochure I found just shows a round hole in the fender. Casey
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Old 11/23/2005, 11:46 PM   #9
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You're right, Danny. "I stand corrected".

I misread the letters, and the photo (as Casey pointed out) was misleading. I guess I got off on quite a tangent, and "couldn't see the trees for the forest".

I still think that there needs to be some close observation on the San Jose Plant variations, since our cars seem to be the noted ones that have made it all over the country, and in some circles, we seem to be the exception, not the rule.

Thanks for pointing that out,

Paul N.
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