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Old 11/22/2016, 08:01 PM   #1
p51
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Checks under valve covers

I've got a leaky valve cover gasket that I'm going to replace. While I've got the valve covers off I thought I'd do a little checking on the health of the valve train, cam, etc. The engine seems plenty healthy (great compression, etc) but I'd like to check what I can with the valve covers off...

So, any suggestions what to look for while I've got the covers off?

Also, does anyone know the stock cam specs (lift, durations, LSA, etc) for a stock 1968 J-code 302 engine? The previous owner did a ~stock engine rebuild but I don't know what cam might have been used. I'd like to check things like lift and LSA while I've got the covers off and compare them to stock #'s.

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James

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Old 11/23/2016, 03:38 PM   #2
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I will get you them tonight!
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Old 11/25/2016, 02:30 PM   #3
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302 J-code Cam specs:

Well I couldn't find anything on the web so I did something really radical in this day and age and... looked in the shop manual (doh!)

So for anyone else looking for this you apparently can calculate all the cam spec numbers from info in the shop manual. Lift's are directly specified for lob lift and valve lift (w/1.6 rocker ratio). There are no durations or LSA directly spec'ed in the manual but you can calculate them from the numbers in the manual (specifically, there no info for 50/1000'' duration specs but you can calculate durations at ~5/1000"). I hesitate to state what I got since my math, assumptions, or interpretation of numbers in the manual might be wrong and I would not want anyone taking what I calculated "to the bank".

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Old 11/25/2016, 10:25 PM   #4
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I got tired from all the turkey..... This is what my 1970 Ford Muscle Parts Catalog says are the specs for a 1968 to 1970 302 cam shaft are:

Intake events:
Open 16 BTC Close 70 ABC Open 40 ATC Close 8 ABC

Exhaust events:
Open 44 BBC Close 20 ATC Open 1 BBC Close 27 BTC

Duration:
Intake 266 Exhaust 244

Lift:
Intake .230 at Lobe .360 at Valve
Exhaust .237 at Lobe .380 at Valve

Overlap:
36

Identifying mark is a UA between last lobe and the journal.

These specs are the same for the 1965 thru 1968 289 engine. Same same. Pretty much a nice cam for a John Deere tractor!! Bigger is better!! The 289 Hipo cam has 82 degrees of overlap and .460 lift at the valve. The 289 Lemans Cam had 94 degrees of overlap and .510 at the valve!! Now we be talkin!!

Rob
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Old 11/25/2016, 11:14 PM   #5
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The guy that built my engine always recommends the Melling 24212 cam for daily driven small block Fords, as a good mix between performance and comfort.
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Old 11/26/2016, 11:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosesatm View Post
The guy that built my engine always recommends the Melling 24212 cam for daily driven small block Fords, as a good mix between performance and comfort.
Arlie,
That looks like an excellent cam for a nice street driver. A lot more pep and I bet a bit of a nice rumble and yet great vacuum and street characteristics.

Rob
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Old 11/26/2016, 11:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert campbell View Post
I got tired from all the turkey..... This is what my 1970 Ford Muscle Parts Catalog says are the specs for a 1968 to 1970 302 cam shaft are:

Intake events:
Open 16 BTC Close 70 ABC Open 40 ATC Close 8 ABC

Exhaust events:
Open 44 BBC Close 20 ATC Open 1 BBC Close 27 BTC

Duration:
Intake 266 Exhaust 244

Lift:
Intake .230 at Lobe .360 at Valve
Exhaust .237 at Lobe .380 at Valve

Overlap:
36

Identifying mark is a UA between last lobe and the journal.

These specs are the same for the 1965 thru 1968 289 engine. Same same. Pretty much a nice cam for a John Deere tractor!! Bigger is better!! The 289 Hipo cam has 82 degrees of overlap and .460 lift at the valve. The 289 Lemans Cam had 94 degrees of overlap and .510 at the valve!! Now we be talkin!!

Rob
In the intake events above the last closing degree may be wrong. I mapped this on a degree wheel thought and I had a correction in my book that says it should be 84 ABC vice the 8 ABC noted.

Rob
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Old 11/26/2016, 12:40 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the info! Appreciate it.

While I'm replacing the valve cover gaskets I thought I'd learn a little about cams - at least enough to do some checks on what I've actually got. Now the more I learn about performance cams the more I want to swap one in. Some of those retro-fit hydraulic roller cam kits look like a good project. Of course that means new intake... headers...

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Old 11/26/2016, 04:14 PM   #9
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I had a Crane hydraulic roller retrofit in my GNS. It had a nice rumble, but great vacuum. This is the grind:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...s/?prefilter=1

The retrofit roller I think is gone. Crane and others came up with a short height roller valve lifter that fits a roller into the stock 1968 blocks with their shorter lifter bores.

Rob
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Old 11/26/2016, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert campbell View Post
I had a Crane hydraulic roller retrofit in my GNS. It had a nice rumble, but great vacuum. This is the grind:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...s/?prefilter=1

The retrofit roller I think is gone. Crane and others came up with a short height roller valve lifter that fits a roller into the stock 1968 blocks with their shorter lifter bores.

Rob
From what I can tell there are two kind of kits for retro-fitting...

(1) One kit has the cam ground on a smaller base circle and uses a standard (?) hydraulic roller lifter along with standard dog bones/spider hold down. The smaller base circle cam keeps the lifters from rising too far (and exposing their oiling hole?). You need to drill two holes in the top of the block to attach the spider.

(2) The other kit has a standard base circle hydraulic-roller cam but the lifters are modified and paired with a link bar to keep them from rotating. In this case the pushrods need to be shorter to make up for the modified lifter height.

Is there yet a third scheme for solving this issue?

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Old 11/26/2016, 06:44 PM   #11
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Number 1 is disappearing.

Number 2 is the current stuff they are offering. My cam was like #1 with the spyder and the longer lifters.

Rob
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Old 11/27/2016, 12:05 PM   #12
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Just curious. Can a cam swap be done on a 1968 mustang without removing the engine from the car?

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Old 11/27/2016, 01:56 PM   #13
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Yes, I have done it. You need to remove the radiator and hood latch supporting stuff that goes down in front of the radiator. I have the Summit Racing Installation tool in this link. You need to remove the brand X adaptor and use a 3/8 16 stud to do a Ford Camshaft. The Proform one looks like it has some nice adaptors. These really help to ensure you do not nick up the cam bearings.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...allation-tools

Rob
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Old 11/27/2016, 08:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert campbell View Post
Yes, I have done it. You need to remove the radiator and hood latch supporting stuff that goes down in front of the radiator. I have the Summit Racing Installation tool in this link. You need to remove the brand X adaptor and use a 3/8 16 stud to do a Ford Camshaft. The Proform one looks like it has some nice adaptors. These really help to ensure you do not nick up the cam bearings.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...allation-tools

Rob
Thanks Rob.

James

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Old 11/27/2016, 09:29 PM   #15
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I am sensing a roller cam, aluminum heads and intake, long tube headers, and a nice big carb in your future!!

HOOOOOO BAAAAAMMM out the exhaust tips!! I have been spending my own money like a drunkin sailor!! It is way fun!!

Rob
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